Hey Paul,
Your vegetarian guy is probably one who does not follow a balanced diet. That is what the Zone Diet is all about, and I wish more vegetarians followed it. I asked Rickson once why he didn't follow the family's vegetarian diet. He said "I eat meat now because it makes me aggressive. I will probably stop when I finish my fighting career." Maybe that is why we don't see more MMA vegetarians. Peace and Love!
I showed you examples of 2 or 3 MMAists?
Srry, we must be talking about a different site.
I'm refering to straightblastgym.com, where is says the vegetarian diet is basically inadequte, when it obviously isn't if you eat it correctly.
Contradictory apects of nutriton? But the diet is considered healthy, world nutrition organisations say so. It's now generally considered to be healthy within nutrional science, you can find out for yourself if you are interested. Please don't say it isn't though (not saying you are), when it quite evidently is healthy.
You've seen examples of boxers who are vegan too. :)
"Regarding Quest, what appears and what is, are 2 different things in this case. Talk to Follis for yourself if you're really interested. " - OK, so they don't advocate the diet? But there's a possibility they do...
"Hey Paul, Your vegetarian guy is probably one who does not follow a balanced diet. That is what the Zone Diet is all about, and I wish more vegetarians followed it. I asked Rickson once why he didn't follow the family's vegetarian diet. He said "I eat meat now because it makes me aggressive. I will probably stop when I finish my fighting career." Maybe that is why we don't see more MMA vegetarians. Peace and Love! "
Correct about the balanced diet, possibly. Also I didn't realize some of the Gracies were vegetarian? Interesting.
Burton, the reason why we don't see more Vegans/vegetrains might be because it isn't a very popluar diet overall, it's growing in popularity, but as meat-eating is more popular there's more likely to be meat-eaters in MMA etc. Not necessarily fbecause of health reasons - look at all the Vegans etc in MMA and combat sports, like the ones I've shown.
I mean there is almost definitely more, but I don't really go scouting out to find who is and who isn't vegan, but I already know of about 5 examples specifcially in combat sport with out really even trying to look much. I'm quite sure there's others.
It's a very healthy diet when eaten correctly, it's unarugable really - just look at all the information avaliable.
www.beyondveg.com covers most of this stuff.
any comparison between a vegan diet and the average american (western) diet is misleading. the comparison should be between a vegan diet and a healthy diet, with lots of lean meat and vegetables.
two eyes in front = predator. ;)
I agree BladeWindu. There are relatively few vegetarians in our culture. Those Hindu wrestlers were pretty big guys, and most Hindus follow a vegetarian diet.
Gorillas are vegetarians for the most part. Eyes in front. Aloha!
I disagree. I don't think that the vegetarian diet stands up to scientific analysis.
compare it to the paleo diet, see where it falls short.
Just a small correction, Team Quest does not advocate a Vegan diet. If you look at the training manual it is not a vegan diet and when Randy was down for a seminar, what he told us he ate was not vegan.
Grundy,
Exactly, which is why I posted what I posted, if I didn't know, I wouldn't post on the subject.
Burton,
Regarding the zone approach, in all the zone books the author recommends tofu and protein powders for the blocks. I can see where this would work but do you use supplements to replenish aminos, oils and minerals lost during training?
Gorilla Power
While I was living in Africa, I was always very impressed with the enormous muscularity and the strength of the entirely vegetarian gorilla. What impressed me even the more is that ehy seem to develop their great strength and hypertrophy without any obvious overload training, Russian secrets, isokentics, German Training, "drop" sets, Olympic Lifting or periodisation.
ON top of that, these wonderful creatures, who obviously have the right levels of endorgenous hormones for producing this strength and size, are very peaceful and non-violent- no 'roid rages'. no natural male testosterone' agressions and so on- makes one really think obout the hormones and 'male' agression and assertiveness! Murder and waton killing among these apes (but not necessarily among chimpanzeez_ is just about non-existent, so they would appear to be more civilised than we 'superior' apes!
Gorilla Training and Diet
Now, the big apes do progress physically through babyhood to adulthood by becomming a lot more moblie in propelling themselves through the forests, but superfically they appear to be doing far less resistance training than the average seriouse bodybuilder, but produce superior results.
No supplements, just few nuts, fruits and veggies! How on earth do they build those huge muscles form the mere vegetables sources, many will ask? Is it possible that we are being sold a huge marketing myth that we cousins of the paes cannot do the same and that we need meat and 'ergogenic' aids? Yes, our digestive systems are different, as those of all creatures are, but ours are not very far removed from those of the apes. Dont gorget that some apes are also meat eaters (like the chimps0, so it would appear that the apes do have the potential to function as omnivores.
Lessons For Us
Maybe there is still quite a lot that we do not know about the innateness or potential of hypertrophy and strength in all species, and instead of usually exammining rats, guinea pigs, cats and dogs, scientist should be looking more closely at the apes. Also, their growth and health on vegetarian diets may teach us a lot more about all these food pyramids hypotheses, zones, low fat diets, ketogenic regimes, and other weird and wonderful table-side tales. Maybe we need to go back to the trees to learn more about ourselves!
Why are we 'hairless apes' generally so much weaker (lets add 'relative to one's bodymass' to be more accurate) than our hairier cousins? There's a little paradox here, beause on of the signs of high testosterone levels in human males apparently is relative lack of hair (baldness etc), so it not simply a matter of 'hairiness and hormones'.
Strength, Fatigue and Beyond
Some instructors have stated that, though no scientist knew the answer to hypertrophy and strength, they know that it is produced by maximal muscle tension under conditions of optimal fatigue. This universal claim does need to be modified. For example, the great apes do not often operate in a state of fatigue and they still manage to develop impressive muscle size and strength (and yes they do minimal cardiovascualar exercises and seldom have heart attacks!). No doubt, much of this strength development is due to the fact that interval-type play, physical 'rough-housing' and daily activities form a central part of gorilla life. Research and practice has also shown that hypertrophy and strength can be developed by non-fatigueing resistance training, also in the form of punctuated intervals of adaquate loading.
Cont
Finally, during the stage before birth, all creatures develop hypertrophy and strength without fatiguing exercises or any resistance movement at all. Nobody has yet to ascertained how this pre-natal growth process take spalce and why it has to be replaced by progressive gradual overload after brith is there an innate hormonal enviroment which is responsible and which some enterprising biochemist is going to synthesis one day? One day will 'gorilla glandulars' or 'foetal power' replace DHEA, andro, Dianabol, and other ergongenic aids to growth?
Mel Siff "Facts and Fallacies of Fitness"
Cool post Adam.
BladeWindu, I compiled and posted those diet articles on our main website, so you can blame me for that. They are about four Years old now.
Regards my current diet recommendations, I would simply offer these basics:
1- Drink lots and lots of water.
There is no performance enhancing aid that will probably effect you in a more positive manner then that simple task.
2- Eat healthy. . .we know what this means. Watch your sugar intake, avoid fried foods. . .avoid the bad fats, especially polyunsaturated fat. The research on the damage that fat can do is pretty astonishing. Also, read your labels. . .its in almost all store bought junk foods.
3- Watch your caloric intake, make sure you get the right amount. . .enough, and not too much.
Regards vegan, paleo, veggie, atkins, zone, etc.
I have used the zone the most, and I am back on a zone basic diet. For me it helps maintain a healthy weight, without excess fat. I am back to 240, and fairly lean. . .which for my frame is healthier. As compared to the 225 or so I was a few Months ago.
But I have also gone 6 Months or so without eating meat. For me, it was a very positive thing. For one I discovered a lot of tasty vegatables I would have never eaten before. And also, there are plenty of great protien supplements on the market that can help make this a good choice.
My biggest error was in stopping my basic lifting routine. As long as I stay steady on the weights I manage to stay pretty healthy, and injury free.
*(combined with intelligent training/rolling/sparring)
We are working on a brand new website for the SBGi main page, and when we get that up I would certainly like to expand the diet page to include vegatarian, paleo, and other diet options.
Experiment for yourself and find what works for your body. The main thing is that you feel healthy, happy, and strong.
BladeWindu, when we get that page going I would certainly love your input on positive ways you can make a vegatarian choice work for athletics. We can add that info up with all the other things, and allow people to browse, read, and choose for themselves.
Enjoy the day!
-Matt Thornton
www.straightblastgym.com
Excellent post Matt. I will check into the Paleo approach to learn about it.
Paul, I am not vegan, as half my protein powder is Whey. It is just so much easier and less expensive to get, especially here in Hawaii. I do not eat any animal products, except when in Italy where it is difficult to get by without any cheese in the diet. I eat a very wide range of foods, so I get my oils in my diet. I take multi vitamins to make sure I get plenty of other essential nutrients, especially with all the training. I am very happy with my diet, but I know it isn't for everyone. Healthy it is, and your body feels great when eating so clean. Aloha!
Burton, thanks for those past food suggestions. I still eat a lot of those things. Not only are they healthier. . .a lot of them are really good.
Hope all is good in sunny Hawaii. We have hit summertime here in Portland, and it's really nice.
www.straightblastgym.com
All Nutrients required for the human body to heal are easily and readily avaliable in the vegan diet; all amino acids/protein, calcium, vitamins etc, minmial research should show this. It's now fairly widely accepted as a healthy diet in nutrition.
We are Predators? So? That is in no way, shape or form an argument for not eating a veg diet :) What do you mean by this? That we are "meant" to eat meat? Yes, but that doesn't mean a vegan diet isn't healthy. It doesn't mean a vegan diet isn't ethical. If doesn;t mean the food can't "taste nice" (most the time it does, for me anyway.) I can't be bothered to get every1 to admit it, but the really good, and only really good argument for eating meat is - "Because I like it", and that's a good winning argument too - but just admit it, please don't say the veg diet is unhealthy. It's also healthy (eating meat), but then so it the veagn diet.
Butron thanks for the info on Hindu wrestlers.
"I disagree. I don't think that the vegetarian diet stands up to scientific analysis." - it's not up for debate :) Even my basic bilogy text books say it's fine, as long as you make sure you eat a healthy diet etc. It's widely accepted as healthy. But yes, I shouldn't be comparing it to the regular US diet, you're correct about that. It's considered to be one of the more healthy diets though.
Adam Singer interesting stuff - a fighter/trainer and a sceintist??? Your new DVD looks good btw, will look it up soon.
Matt Thornton - I'm a big "fan" btw (I recommend "lost" TMA-ists to your site when I can) - I did email you about this. If it wasn't for that bit on your diet section of SBG.com I wouldn't have posted what I did above :D I hoped you would reply to this post.
"1- Drink lots and lots of water." I do, definitely.
"2- Eat healthy. . .we know what this means. " Yes.
"3- Watch your caloric intake" - This I don't do...
"But I have also gone 6 Months or so without eating meat. For me, it was a very positive thing. For one I discovered a lot of tasty vegatables I would have never eaten before. And also, there are plenty of great protien supplements on the market that can help make this a good choice." OK, this is a very, very good thing to hear. About finding new vegetables - there are so many foods to choose form in the Vegan diet, you generally only find them when you're only eating veg, IMO.
"We are working on a brand new website for the SBGi main page, and when we get that up I would certainly like to expand the diet page to include vegatarian, paleo, and other diet options. " - Great to hear, very glad. It will make it the perfect MA site, for me, which is why I orginally emailed you, I wanted to try and "correct" the veg part you have on there.
"BladeWindu, when we get that page going I would certainly love your input on positive ways you can make a vegatarian choice work for athletics. We can add that info up with all the other things, and allow people to browse, read, and choose for themselves. " Well that would be excellent, I can refer you sites etc, of people who eat veg diets.
I'm just getting in shape myself, starting to train 100% properly etc. Whereas before I didn't excersize everyday etc, now I am. * I could basically tell you how to get everything you need in a vegan diet etc. *
Check out www.mikemahler.com - he's a vegan and a strenghth coach.
One supplement is required in the diet, vitamin B12, but really that's it. Having said that Fortified soya milk, which does contain added "artificial" vitamins and minerals is a very good source of Calcium etc, and you may as well have that if you can get hold of it, though the nutrients can easily be obtained from natural plant sources...so fortified soya milk is giving you a lot extra if you already have a healthy vegan diet.
Look at "Quinoa" - astronauts use it, as does the England Rugby team (it's a grain with all the essential amino acids in it, high in protein and fairly high in iron.)
Thanks for replying Matt Thornton, I should be buying your second functional JKD series soon...
*** EDIT *** : Btw, Hurry up and open a Straight Blast Gym in London. :D
Fruit JUICE usually has a high gylcemic index, but eating the fruit will mean that you simultaneously ingest the fiber which slows the absorbtion of sugar into the bloodstream, thus inhibiting the insulin response.The difference between glycemic index and glycemic load..
www.westonaprice.org
Gorilla's eat insects and are known to actually go to war against invading packs and eat the dead. They also have the teeth of an ominivore(some flat some sharp). Weird but true! I'll shut up now.
This is why I said "Gorillas are vegetarians for the
most part.", emphasis on "most part".
Another note. You can run a ferrari on diesel fuel,
and it will work. Over time, you are going to have to
get a major, expensive overhaul. Aloha!