Dana isn't a fan, he's a promoter.
Right now, Henderson and Fedor are free agents.
Dana is discrediting Fedor for losing to a "42yr old middleweight". That also discredits Dan as he's just a "42yr old middleweight".
Why bash 2 legends?
Well, because if you promote them when they aren't under contract, you basically are giving them leverage to justify more money.
If I'm a major owner of the UFC, I would hire someone who is the front man of my business, and can deflect the negative and have the finger of critisim pointed directly at him.
I would hope that my guy is so loyal to me and my business, that he will belittle legends even if he deep down admires him.
My guy would be able to promote someone who has 1 win in 5 years and make him a main event headliner(cough cough Tito Ortiz), and also be able to discredit arguably one of the best mixed martial artist to ever fight, because he never fought for your business.
I hate that heartless guy, but damn that heartless guy is good for almost any business.
edit-double post.
Let me also point out that when Dan was in negotiations between Zuffa and SF for the 1st time, Dana belittled Dan and implied that he was washed up. It didn't stop either when Dan had signed to the competitor and lost to Jake Shields. Dana had no problems bashing Dan who was not under contract with UFC.
I think he made some valid points.
At one point, namely 2005, Fedor WAS a force. He was given the chance to cement his legacy by joining the UFC yet decided not to.
Now, he will likely head back to Japan after being FINISHED in 3 straight bouts. That is quite sad for the supposed GOAT, which makes me laugh because the Greatest Of All Time is subjective depending on the era.
IF Fedor personally wants vindication I say he should tell M-1 to get a deal done with the UFC. Is it the perfect scenario for Fedor to come into? No. But it would go a LONG way in regaining some of the luster.
And no, I do not buy the excuse that Fedor is "past his prime". D241, you have a man in Tito Ortiz who has had BACK and NECK surgery and is still putting up some valiant performances and pushing himself to succeed. What's Fedor's excuse?
Fedor didn't need to join the UFC to cement his legacy. PRIDE's HW's blew the UFC's HW's out of the water.
^ and yet pride's HW's couldnt stay afloat in the UFC.
Heath Herring loses his first fight.
Crocop loses his first 2 fights.
Werdum loses his first fight, goes 2-2 and gets cut.
Big Nog did the best and he still couldnt stay afloat in the deep end for very long.
Funaki Masakatsu #1 - Fedor didn't need to join the UFC to cement his legacy. PRIDE's HW's blew the UFC's HW's out of the water.
MMALOGIC - ^ and yet pride's HW's couldnt stay afloat in the UFC.
Crocop loses his first 2 fights.
Except that he won his first fight in the UFC against Eddie Sanchez
Funaki Masakatsu #1 - Fedor didn't need to join the UFC to cement his legacy. PRIDE's HW's blew the UFC's HW's out of the water.
I disagree.
He had an AMAZING run in PRIDE but he failed to do what Wanderlei Silva did and come to the organization who had MAJORITY of the best fighters in his respective weight class.
He could have joined and beaten some of these guys during that time he could have been anointed the GOAT:
Randy Couture
Frank Mir
Cheik Kongo
Gabriel Gonzaga
Brock Lesnar (joined the UFC in '08)
rockwell -MMALOGIC - ^ and yet pride's HW's couldnt stay afloat in the UFC.
Crocop loses his first 2 fights.
Except that he won his first fight in the UFC against Eddie Sanchez
And except the fact that Werdum also was NOT cut. His contract ended and Werdum went to a promotion that offered him a better deal.
Damn MMALOGIC, that's 2 incorrect statements you made. I might need to verify your other claims.
Kissmisery.
It's obvious you weren't privy to who the top hw's were in the timeframe you mentioned.
Let me tell you some things.
Right now, and for a while, UFC is hands down the #1 organization in the world.
That being said, when Fedor was in Pride, Pride was THE #1 organization in the world.
You need to look at who JDS and Cain and Shane were BACK THEN, realize that they didn't fight any big names BACK THEN. When Fedor was negotiating, the remaining top hw's were outside of the UFC. People even back then were saying "but Fedor didn't fight the UFC Champion Andrei Arvloski or Tim Sylvia". Well, because Fedor went with a promotion that allowed co-promotion, Fedor was finally able to fight those guys. He did, and he won.
When you make such bold statements like Fedor could've fought Frank Mir and Cheick Kongo and Brock Lesnar, why don't you do some research, try your Very Best to validate those guys, and what they did in that timeframe to entice Fedor to fight them.
Lost.
dana>fedor
D241 -rockwell -MMALOGIC - ^ and yet pride's HW's couldnt stay afloat in the UFC.
Crocop loses his first 2 fights.
Except that he won his first fight in the UFC against Eddie Sanchez
And except the fact that Werdum also was NOT cut. His contract ended and Werdum went to a promotion that offered him a better deal.
Damn MMALOGIC, that's 2 incorrect statements you made. I might need to verify your other claims.<br type="_moz" />
Crocop winning his first fight against sanchez is true... he lost his next 2 fights.
Werdum was cut. He was released from his existing contract which had fights left on it. He was offered another contract for alot less money which he opted not to take.
That doesnt mean he wasnt released from his existing contract.
HighBastard - dana>fedor
I love it when longtime lurkers with very few post make a very short/simple post.
You'd think of ALL the topics over the years, if something is going to make a lurker post, the lurker would have alot to say.
Also-Maybe cuz I'm high, but I see the dana>fedor as a pacman Fedor about to eat Dana.
D241 - Kissmisery.
It's obvious you weren't privy to who the top hw's were in the timeframe you mentioned.
Let me tell you some things.
Right now, and for a while, UFC is hands down the #1 organization in the world.
That being said, when Fedor was in Pride, Pride was THE #1 organization in the world.
You need to look at who JDS and Cain and Shane were BACK THEN, realize that they didn't fight any big names BACK THEN. When Fedor was negotiating, the remaining top hw's were outside of the UFC. People even back then were saying "but Fedor didn't fight the UFC Champion Andrei Arvloski or Tim Sylvia". Well, because Fedor went with a promotion that allowed co-promotion, Fedor was finally able to fight those guys. He did, and he won.
When you make such bold statements like Fedor could've fought Frank Mir and Cheick Kongo and Brock Lesnar, why don't you do some research, try your Very Best to validate those guys, and what they did in that timeframe to entice Fedor to fight them.<br type="_moz" />
This is true... pride was hands down had the best HW roster in the world.
The problem is Fedor only fought 2 of them: Crocop and NOg.
He didnt fight werdum... he didnt fight kharitonov... he didnt fight barnett.
Imagine if after Anderson beat Franklin twice and hendo he decided not to fight nate, chael, maia or okami. imagine if he just skipped those guys and fought jobbers and cans.
Imagine if after GSP beat BJ and Matt hughes twice he decides he doesnt want to fight Fitch, alves, koscheck, jake shields and instead he wants to fight marius zaromskis (he was ranked top 10) and he wants to fight Mach Sakurai in between cans.
Fedor rightfully earned the HW crown when he beat nog and then successfully defended against the former champ and eventually Crcoop (after ducking him for a year).
But then Fedor didnt give others the same opportunity that Nog gave to him. Fedor stopped fight the most worthy contender in his division.
Imagine if Big Nog didnt fight Fedor... we'd talking about Big Nog being the GOAT. That's just ducking one fighter. Fedor didnt fight a plethora of guys who were next in line.
yes ive lurked alot of years. it was hard to come on here and hear about how invincible a this guy was. a guy who ducked the entire ufc heavyweight division, yet he was invincible. that time has now passed :)
D241,
I didn't bring up JDS OR Velasquez OR Carwin.
I simply included the names of certain HWs who I believed could have been decent match-ups FOR Fedor AFTER 2006 when negotiations were supposedly was heaviest, because his career seems to have stagnated after that year.
Randy Couture - beat Tim Sylvia AND Gabriel Gonzaga in 2007, worthy challenger
Frank Mir - had defeated Hardonk, Lesnar AND KOd Nog during 07-08, worthy challenger
Cheick Kongo - had beaten Cro Cop during 07, sturdy challenge
Gabriel Gonzaga - KO of the year against Cro Cop, sturdy challenge
Thing is, he problably COULD and WOULD have beaten EVERY single one of these guys BUT he didn't. Instead he took on:
Matt Lindland - natural 185er
Hong-Man Choi - freak show fight
Tim Sylvia - strong challenger, good win
Andrei Arlovski - strong challenger, good win
Brett Rogers - notable wins: Andrei Arlovski
Fabricio Werdum - defeated by submission
Antonio Silva - defeated by TKO (doctor stoppage)
Dan Henderson - defeated by KO
I still think he is an exciting fighter and can redeem himself if he wishes to. I don't doubt Dana White wouldn't sign him...but just for a smaller price tag than before.
MMALOGIC -D241 -rockwell -MMALOGIC - ^ and yet pride's HW's couldnt stay afloat in the UFC.
Crocop loses his first 2 fights.
Except that he won his first fight in the UFC against Eddie Sanchez
And except the fact that Werdum also was NOT cut. His contract ended and Werdum went to a promotion that offered him a better deal.
Damn MMALOGIC, that's 2 incorrect statements you made. I might need to verify your other claims.<br type="_moz" />
Crocop winning his first fight against sanchez is true... he lost his next 2 fights.
Werdum was cut. He was released from his existing contract which had fights left on it. He was offered another contract for alot less money which he opted not to take.
That doesnt mean he wasnt released from his existing contract.
Ok so he didn't lose his first 2 fights in the UFC then.
Werdum wasn't cut or released. You clearly don't understand what those words mean. His contract with UFC had ended. He CHOSE to sign with SF.
chunkyass - Once again the rewriting of mma history continues with ufc fanboys.
Who is attempting to "rewrite" history?
No one is taking anything away from Fedor's accomplishments PRIOR to 2005-2006 BUT what did he do since?
He beat two solid opponents in Sylvia and Arlovski. Two in the span of 6 YEARS.
Do you think he would have been so dominant in the UFC for 6 years going up against solid opponents and younger contenders?
Look at Tito Ortiz, and I bring him up because he gets dragged down every time, since 2006 he has fought:
Forrest Griffin - solid prospect who later became champion
Ken Shamrock - unecessary, in my opinion, but wanted by Shamrock
Ken Shamrock - unecessary BUT demanded by Dana White
Chuck Liddell - was the current LHW champion
Rashad Evans - solid prospect who later became champion
Lyoto Machida - solid prospect who later became champion
Forrest Griffin - was a former LHW champion
Matt Hamill - solid prospect
Ryan Bader - solid prospect, had just fought for a #1 contender's spot
Rashad Evans - was a former LHW champion
That's a damn MURDERER'S ROW of guys to get through. I'm simply saying Fedor would not have the opportunity to seek a "gimme" fight sprinkled in with a serious challenger because the UFC doesn't do that with its fighters.
Kissmisery, I just want you to know, that it's not because I feel you've made one or more valid points and I'm not going to reply....
It's that you have said so much for me to pick apart that I'm not going to waste my time.
I wlil say, when you look at how you defended Mir and Cheick and GG, then try to discredit......ah, fuck it, I'll pick you apart.....
give me a couple minutes....