TMAs + Live Sparring

I trained with a Shorin Ryu guy in Grinnell, IA for a couple years. He was super-hardcore, and the folks he trained with trained very realistically. They would spar full-contact, and they trained for fast KO's.

Anyways, he didn't look like a typical "karate" guy at all. He looked more like a modified kickboxer. He would angle at you until he found an opening and blast you with punches and kicks right down your centerline until you weren't left standing.

The moral to this story is, if you take any TMA and train it in a realistic way, what you are gonna end up with is gonna look a lot like MMA (since this guys neglected his groundwork, he looked more like a kickboxer.)

Take a look at San Da (san shou). A lot of Chinese TMA stylists do it, and it looks pretty much like Muay Thai with lots of good throws. These guys aren't training MT and wrestling. They haven't scrapped their traditional arts. They are just training more realistically in their arts. Everything ends up looking similar, because after all, a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick. There are only so many ways you can manipulate the human body.

I bring this up because everyone is saying that Franklin sucks now that he has gotten beat by a karate dude. I think that Franklin IS as good as his hype, and I think that he is in the same league (or just a step behind) Liddel, Ortiz, Belfort, and Couture. I just think that it is quite possible for this guy Lyoto to be that good.

TMAs + realistic training + live sparring = typical MMA fighter.


5 o clock shadow has just front kicked the correct in the balls, grabbed it by the hair and thrown it across the room, and then collar choked it out from a knee-on-stomach holddown!!

TMA plus sparring turns into kickboxing.You don't see the TMA moves seen in katas being used anymore.Because they don't work.

Except for those with exceptional talent. Don the Dragon made use out of side kick and stepping side that not many can do....

Didn't Franklin get knocked out with a punch?

There's no punching to the head in Kyokishin... :)


its a universal fact that your father is a dumbass


"TMAs + realistic training + live sparring = typical MMA fighter. "

I remember posting that on Mousel's forum about 6 or 7 years ago....


One interesting aspect about this guy was that he was a total flurry fighter. It made sense, since they were training for street fights and most street fights are over with the first hard shot to land (plus most self-defense situations usually involve "homerun hitters" -eg streetfighters who swing for the fences, rather than two skilled fighters moving, parrying, and feinting.)

After we watched Vitor annihilate Vanderlei Silva, he said "that's Shorin Ryu!" While I wouldn't jump to the same conclusion he did, I will say that he had a similar style. Hit hard, hit fast and keep hitting.

Given the high percentage of KO's in MMA, I think that it might have been a good strategy for sport-fighting as well.



"TMAs + realistic training + live sparring = typical MMA fighter"

I disagree, since I think most MMA fighters are deliberately unrealistic in their training. Almost all of the TMAs started out reality driven, and then got lost in the mcdojo path. BJJ is starting to do the same thing. So is MMA

jason hornbuckle,

How do you think that MMA and BJJ can be more realistic in their approach? How do you see them straying from "the path?"


TMAs + realistic training + live sparring = kickboxing

TMAs a great for learning "tricks" to use when untrained / drunks make commited attacks (bear hug, wrist grab... against trained fighters you would get into trouble...

If TMAs are trained like kickboxing, you are leaning kickboxing not Shorin Ryu... You can call it Shorin Ryu BUT it is kickboxing...

Nothing new there....ever hear of Kyokushin?

I think jumping to guard is ludicrous, just for starters. The bjj school near here that I have trained with starts from the knees on their free sparring, which I also see as ridiculous. If you're a ground fighter, the first thing you need to do is work on your takedowns, and that seems to be the thing that bjj pays the least attention to

hornbuckle is correct.

i friend and i discussed this last night. tma's can be a joke and most often are, it just depends on who is doing it and and how they are doing it.

a tough guy is still a tough guy even if he does tkd, kook sol won or hapkido. if randy couture quit wrestling right out of college and spent the next few years doing tkd, i still wouldnt have wanted to fuck with him in a streetfight. you just never know about the individual across from you, things are not always as they appear.

I agree that sport mma is not fighting mma. In my mma sparring we include all sorts of stuff, headbutts, sticks, wall features, etc. Great fun!