I think Paulo was a Judo BB before he was a BJJ BB. IIRC.
the rooster, actually thats a easy answer. Most of those guys just trained in judo, but never really tried to "learn" judo if you get what I am saying. Its the same reason why a lot of bjj black belts are also bb in judo, yet you don't see them ever throwing people or taking them down in sport bjj comps. Guys like Saulo, Margarida, Jacare, and Sperry came from strong judo backgrounds (they actually loved doing judo and still train it today) so they have the technical refinement to make those skills work. As for Karo, well his training lineage speaks for itself as he was taught to do judo without the gi early on in his training, so no bad gi habits were ever picked up.
Paulo was actually a very good judo black belt. Really good, his judo results are impressive (forget them off the top of my head).
Hunter, but it is more confusing than that. For example, if you watch Kondo vs. Saulo, Saulo, a very good judo black belt, bent over at the waist and ran head first at Kondo for the takedown...it was very disappointing.
It's almost as if they (ie. Brazilian bjjers with judo backgrounds) start to train "wrestling style takedowns" when they start their MMA transition from sport bjj, and forget that from the clinch, etc. that they can set-up throws (or change levels for a takedown as that is part of judo anyway).
I do think that it is strange...
awesome story Andre...Brazil does sound great! Despite your modesty, with your grappling background, you'd actually be better at throws than most of us after just a short while I bet...
"Judo and BJJ are the same art with a different set of rules. Make Judo competition rules the same as BJJ and watch how fast it becomes the same. Same goes for BJJ."
I read somewhere that Kano adjusted the rules early on because people were focusing too much on ground work and he felt the standup stuff was more entertaining. Not sure how true that is, but I always wondered if maybe the Judo that the Gracies learned was from before the change in emphasis. Depending on when Count Coma left Japan and when the rules were tweaked and the focus shifted. Just something to think about (if it's true about Kano changing the emphasis).
Well Judo and BJJ are both a part of Ju-Jitsu. They have different focuses and are different games but they are all part of the one art.
Judo ne-waza is also very conducive to the one-trick pony mentality in that you can set up reactions based off throws. And based off the reactions you can get quick subs. But if you had the "ne-waza" expert start from his knees, then he would look very average.
So just b/c you have a guy tearing it up with submissions in competition judo, it doesn't necessarily mean he has a good overall ground game.
..and just because a guy is a sub machine in bjj does not mean he will have the transition knowledge and speed to make it work in judo. Both arts are good and compliment each other really well.
I am far from an authority. I did BJJ for 6 months I just started judo. I found the ground game to be very fast paced when I rolled with some of the judoka which I like better then being held in the gaurd with someone waiting for your to give them a chance to submit you. It is a easy to see that if you train throws and newaza 50 50 then your newaza will not be as good as someone that does it 100% of the time.
"I read somewhere that Kano adjusted the rules early on because people were focusing too much on ground work and he felt the standup stuff was more entertaining."
He changed them in 1942, though not for entertainment, but because Kano felt that throwing was more character developing and was better physical training. Remeber Judo was for the masses, students, fighters, your mom etc.. it had to be effective and beneficial on a greater level to a broad spectrum of society.
By this time Maeda was already in Brazil teaching.
Awesome Andre. Yea when I trained in Salk Lake City with a Pedro Saur Brown Belt, we had a Judo Guy from great Britain come in and he ended up being one of the grappling coaches and taught us all alot and I know he learned some stuff from my instructor.
If my knees can handle it, Im going to try to train judo when I get back to L.A. I really enjoyed it!
awesome stuff
i never got into the judo vs. bjj thing.
i trained a few times w/ an olympic silver medalist near my home town (Jason Morris)... his guys were really good in the standup and even though i am good at the clinch from a wrestling standpoint, they were able to make things very difficult for me... morris skied me once like it was his job description... he had a great wizzer throw ( i don't know japanese name, but i shot in on leg and he threw me real nice... i like to use that now )...
If Andre is going to post complimentary stuff about judo, I
demand that he turn in his official BJJ beanie and pitbull.
andre.. correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you used to train at Gokor's? It's one of the best judo schools in the U.S.
Nice. Brasilia is an awesome city! I have some really good friends there.
May I ask if and where you Andre train BJJ there?
Empire, the throw you are thinking of is Uchimata from the whizzer. Good against guys shooting for a single.
"andre.. correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you used to train at Gokor's? It's one of the best judo schools in the U.S. "
Jacket, I only trained no gi there. I took the gi classes, only went there to roll on the gi (judo) days.
Fudo, I´m training with Joao Roque!
Aha, nice. I´ve only heard good things about them aswell.