Macedawgg -
One time is to many.
How many times has a fighter retained his ranking when leaving any promotion?
If nothing would change--why is the UFC vigorously resisting?
You listen to Mullin clips Goku? The one where Mullin says the UFC told him they don't have championship titles--they have prizes for fighter of the night?
I wonder if that was said with a straight face. Would have loved to see it.
im not saying nothing would change..things would dramatically change to the point where it completely alters the business...i was saying having independent rankings wouldnt change things...but when you throw in mandatory fights dictated by law, yes that would change things for the worse imo
and one time is too many? are you saying the ufc shouldnt have the flexibility to make fights like rda v. mcgregor? are you purposefully trying to destroy mma?
He is a poster boy. Fitch. Couture. Okami. Nate Diaz being dropped from rankings altogether. Bader. Champions simply being stripped. The list is long.
This is even after you consider that the fighters all along the path have no leverage--don't sign, you don't acend the "promoter" ladder.
Sport winners ascend, the results of competition determine merit. Athletes compete for titles. Champions defend.
Rob Manfred, the commissioner of baseball, cannot simply replace the Royals from the World Series, or worse, exclude them from the Playoffs because another option was willing to make more concessions or has higher marketability. The public would be outraged, Congress would intervene.
Mockery of the integrity of sport. MMA--business as usual.
Macedawgg -
He is a poster boy. Fitch. Couture. Okami. Nate Diaz being dropped from rankings altogether. Bader. Champions simply being stripped. The list is long.
This is even after you consider that the fighters all along the path have no leverage--don't sign, you don't acend the "promoter" ladder.
Sport winners ascend, the results of competition determine merit. Athletes compete for titles. Champions defend.
Rob Manfred, the commissioner of baseball, cannot simply replace the Royals from the World Series, or worse, exclude them from the Playoffs because another option was willing to make more concessions or has higher marketability. The public would be outraged, Congress would intervene.
Mockery of the integrity of sport. MMA--business as usual.
how about some compromise? i know your heart is in the right place but what you are asking for is basically a total overhaul of a system that has worked and has been extremely successful to this point
how about instead of mandatory fights, you just have independent rankings...sure that might not get you 100% to where you want to go, but it would create some amount of pressure on the ufc and give certain high ranked fighters more leverage...but at the end of the day, if people dont want to see a particular match, why are we requiring by law that the UFC do it? this is crazy
Long past time this is fixed.
Long list of fighters are doing something about it.
Multiple champions, UFC Hall of Famers--many with nothing to gain.
They are standing up for people that want change but are worried about retaliation. Are worried they will be stalled on the promoter controlled ladder. They are standing up to bring integirty back to the sport.
seems like this has become an obsession for you, to the point where you must win against the UFC at all costs..
ufc is bigger than ever, fighters have more rights than ever, fighter purses are bigger than ever...why derail it at this point?
this isnt the industrial age where 13 year old girls are being forced to work in a coal mine for 45 cents an hour
this isnt even the era when the ali act was passed..and its not boxing either
why not just come up with a more measured, compromised approach instead of totally overhauling the system and potentially damaging mma irrevocably
It is long overdue that it operate as a professional sport.
Sport survives Goku--MMA isn't going anywhere.
In fact, it will thrive.
Macedawgg -
It is long overdue that it operate as a professional sport.
Sport survives Goku--MMA isn't going anywhere.
In fact, it will thrive.
seems like a professional sport to me...but its entertainment too...its not the presidential election
sport is here to entertain people...if people want something, the ufc delivers it 99% of the time...why do you want to force something on the ufc that will prevent that?
name people who have been so unjustly treated by the current system? fitch? he got a title shot..and he was a boring fighter most people didnt want to watch..why are you trying to force the ufc to do things people dont want? some romantic notion of competitive integrity?
Thacommish - gokudamus - seems like this has become an obsession for you, to the point where you must win against the UFC at all costs..
ufc is bigger than ever, fighters have more rights than ever, fighter purses are bigger than ever...why derail it at this point?
this isnt the industrial age where 13 year old girls are being forced to work in a coal mine for 45 cents an hour
this isnt even the era when the ali act was passed..and its not boxing either
why not just come up with a more measured, compromised approach instead of totally overhauling the system and potentially damaging mma irrevocably
Remember when that was don king for boxing?
He was a nice guy
you are comparing the ufc to don king? how?
Thacommish - gokudamus - Macedawgg -
It is long overdue that it operate as a professional sport.
Sport survives Goku--MMA isn't going anywhere.
In fact, it will thrive.
seems like a professional sport to me...but its entertainment too...its not the presidential election
sport is here to entertain people...if people want something, the ufc delivers it 99% of the time...why do you want to force something on the ufc that will prevent that?
name people who have been so unjustly treated by the current system? fitch? he got a title shot..and he was a boring fighter most people didnt want to watch..why are you trying to force the ufc to do things people dont want? some romantic notion of competitive integrity?
The most profitable aspect of the UFC its ability to negotiate fighters to purses below what they effectively bring in.
Thats where the profit comes from. like when walmart makes huge bulk deals that helps to pass along discounts, ufc doesnt have that, they just have negotiating fighters to lower salaries so their profit margin is higher.
Then they spend the extra money on things like lobbying.... ufc gyms.... international expansion.... and fighters see it go away.
how do you know the purses are below what they effectively bring in...there are some fighters who get paid more than what they bring in...you take them off the card and nothing will happen...this applies to the vast majority of the ufc rostedr
are you seriously criticizing the ufc for things like international expansion...this is a perfect example of looking at fighter issues in a vaccuum without understanding the larger picture...the ufc is, and always has, created a larger pie...a larger pie means more pie for everyone...this has been the trend since the beginning...sure you can argue that the fighters should get more of that pie, but at the end of the day, it shouldnt be to the point where you prevent further attempts to expand the ufc and its brand...thats terribly short sighted
Thacommish - Do you know why UFC is able to do this effectively? Theyve stacked the deck. They hold all the negotiating power. They control your destiny, your matchups when you get a title shot. All of that. None of it is in your hands. They can punish you for not taking a short notice fight, theyve threatened unfavorable matchups to fighters who speak out against the company. Remember when tim kennedy talked shit then all of a sudden the next day ufc said "Hey, your fighting VITOR, in BRAZIL" lol. Some of it is really sad.
no they dont hold all the power..if they did, why would they pay conor $10+M for a single fight? why would they allow nate to rengotiate his contract like 3x in a year?
the answer is they dont have all the power...they have leverage...sure just like any other company...if you are a fungible employee you dont have leverage, but that is the reality in most of the free market...
Thacommish - gokudamus - Thacommish - gokudamus - Macedawgg -
It is long overdue that it operate as a professional sport.
Sport survives Goku--MMA isn't going anywhere.
In fact, it will thrive.
seems like a professional sport to me...but its entertainment too...its not the presidential election
sport is here to entertain people...if people want something, the ufc delivers it 99% of the time...why do you want to force something on the ufc that will prevent that?
name people who have been so unjustly treated by the current system? fitch? he got a title shot..and he was a boring fighter most people didnt want to watch..why are you trying to force the ufc to do things people dont want? some romantic notion of competitive integrity?
The most profitable aspect of the UFC its ability to negotiate fighters to purses below what they effectively bring in.
Thats where the profit comes from. like when walmart makes huge bulk deals that helps to pass along discounts, ufc doesnt have that, they just have negotiating fighters to lower salaries so their profit margin is higher.
Then they spend the extra money on things like lobbying.... ufc gyms.... international expansion.... and fighters see it go away.
how do you know the purses are below what they effectively bring in...there are some fighters who get paid more than what they bring in...you take them off the card and nothing will happen...this applies to the vast majority of the ufc rostedr
are you seriously criticizing the ufc for things like international expansion...this is a perfect example of looking at fighter issues in a vaccuum without understanding the larger picture...the ufc is, and always has, created a larger pie...a larger pie means more pie for everyone...this has been the trend since the beginning...sure you can argue that the fighters should get more of that pie, but at the end of the day, it shouldnt be to the point where you prevent further attempts to expand the ufc and its brand...thats terribly short sighted
The company is PROFITABLE.
Dana white and the fertitas make BANK son
Arianny is doing GREAT for herself.
They offer more charity than most companies of their size.
They just built a new complex.
dana white and the fertittas should make BANK son...they took the UFC from total obscurity, they put up all the risk capital, they put in their own sweat equity and they transformed mma into a global mainstream sport...where would all the fighters be without their efforts? surely they should be rewarded for what theyve done and properly incentivized for the continued expansion of mma
Thacommish - gokudamus - Thacommish - Do you know why UFC is able to do this effectively? Theyve stacked the deck. They hold all the negotiating power. They control your destiny, your matchups when you get a title shot. All of that. None of it is in your hands. They can punish you for not taking a short notice fight, theyve threatened unfavorable matchups to fighters who speak out against the company. Remember when tim kennedy talked shit then all of a sudden the next day ufc said "Hey, your fighting VITOR, in BRAZIL" lol. Some of it is really sad.
no they dont hold all the power..if they did, why would they pay conor $10+M for a single fight? why would they allow nate to rengotiate his contract like 3x in a year?
the answer is they dont have all the power...they have leverage...sure just like any other company...if you are a fungible employee you dont have leverage, but that is the reality in most of the free market...
The "free market" dictated purses like Gilbert Melendez, Eddie Alvarez
are those the norm in the UFC>
Or are they exceptions to the rule?
When they gave eddie his contract (coming off a loss in bellator) it was worth more then they were paying their current champ in benson.
Free market>? lol its their market.
its the norm if you take that route, which anyone is free to do...but as i mentioned before, too many young fighters want to get into the ufc at all costs so they can say they fite UFC..they do this of their own free will so if they sign the dotted lihe i dont have a ton of sympathy for them
Awesome, thanks Matt for your perspective on this
Thacommish - If you have evidence that they are scraping by and barely able to pay for the next cards or barely break even year after year. Or maybe show how dana lives in poverty through an episode of CRIBS? maybe find a video of fertita washing his suits in his bathtub?
Do you really think they pay the fighters waht they bring in>
They are the product, this isnt walmart negotiating bulk products. People pay to watch the fighters. Not fucking dana.
there are thousands of people that PAY thousands of dollars to do what fighters do to GET PAID...why is it assumed that all fighters, even if they are completely fungible, even if the amount of value they add to the ufc is minimal, should get paid $xxx dollars...dont like it? dont fight in the ufc? or dont fight mma and get a real job like the rest of the world
The Askren Act is legit. As long as no fight predictions are involved, CRE should be writing for an MMA publication.
Thacommish - No not anyone is free to do that goku. Not the way they operate. Thats why its NOT the norm.
And also LOL at bringin up nate diaz negotiating as a plus for UFC paying fighters, when they repeatedly threw nate diaz under the bus in public for trying to do this.
huh? are people enslaved to fight mma? if you can fight mma, you can work at mcdonalds
Thacommish - gokudamus - Thacommish - If you have evidence that they are scraping by and barely able to pay for the next cards or barely break even year after year. Or maybe show how dana lives in poverty through an episode of CRIBS? maybe find a video of fertita washing his suits in his bathtub?
Do you really think they pay the fighters waht they bring in>
They are the product, this isnt walmart negotiating bulk products. People pay to watch the fighters. Not fucking dana.
there are thousands of people that PAY thousands of dollars to do what fighters do to GET PAID...why is it assumed that all fighters, even if they are completely fungible, even if the amount of value they add to the ufc is minimal, should get paid $xxx dollars...dont like it? dont fight in the ufc? or dont fight mma and get a real job like the rest of the world
You completely lost the argument you had with me and are now trying to frame it into a different argument. I dont appreciate that.
what is the argument? you are starting from the assumption that all fighters must make enough so they dont have to "scrape by" fight to fight..i dont accept that assumption..plenty of people struggle paycheck to paycheck with jobs they hate...why should fighters be exempted from this for doing a job they love?
Thacommish - You asked me questions i gave you a fucking answer for everything. Thats more than you gave me. Your position is now boiled down to "they signed the contract so i dont care"
Which is fine stop caring, but dont be in here telling others not to care cause your a fucking moran and cant see whats going on. after all you dont care remember?
i never said i dont care...i actually made a thread saying nate diaz should get paid as much as conor just like a week ago, so i obviously care...but i dont think the government, which has proven time and time again that they dont know what the fuck they are doing whyen it comes to business, should step in to completely overhaul the ufc and the mma world...i think people that support this dont really understand the potential ramifications
Thacommish - gokudamus - Thacommish - gokudamus - Thacommish - If you have evidence that they are scraping by and barely able to pay for the next cards or barely break even year after year. Or maybe show how dana lives in poverty through an episode of CRIBS? maybe find a video of fertita washing his suits in his bathtub?
Do you really think they pay the fighters waht they bring in>
They are the product, this isnt walmart negotiating bulk products. People pay to watch the fighters. Not fucking dana.
there are thousands of people that PAY thousands of dollars to do what fighters do to GET PAID...why is it assumed that all fighters, even if they are completely fungible, even if the amount of value they add to the ufc is minimal, should get paid $xxx dollars...dont like it? dont fight in the ufc? or dont fight mma and get a real job like the rest of the world
You completely lost the argument you had with me and are now trying to frame it into a different argument. I dont appreciate that.
what is the argument? you are starting from the assumption that all fighters must make enough so they dont have to "scrape by" fight to fight..i dont accept that assumption..plenty of people struggle paycheck to paycheck with jobs they hate...why should fighters be exempted from this for doing a job they love?
Where did i ever say fighters must make enough so they dont scrape by? quote it for me, you fuckign idiot
ok, succinctly state your argument retard
Thacommish - gokudamus - Thacommish - gokudamus - Thacommish - gokudamus - Thacommish - If you have evidence that they are scraping by and barely able to pay for the next cards or barely break even year after year. Or maybe show how dana lives in poverty through an episode of CRIBS? maybe find a video of fertita washing his suits in his bathtub?
Do you really think they pay the fighters waht they bring in>
They are the product, this isnt walmart negotiating bulk products. People pay to watch the fighters. Not fucking dana.
there are thousands of people that PAY thousands of dollars to do what fighters do to GET PAID...why is it assumed that all fighters, even if they are completely fungible, even if the amount of value they add to the ufc is minimal, should get paid $xxx dollars...dont like it? dont fight in the ufc? or dont fight mma and get a real job like the rest of the world
You completely lost the argument you had with me and are now trying to frame it into a different argument. I dont appreciate that.
what is the argument? you are starting from the assumption that all fighters must make enough so they dont have to "scrape by" fight to fight..i dont accept that assumption..plenty of people struggle paycheck to paycheck with jobs they hate...why should fighters be exempted from this for doing a job they love?
Where did i ever say fighters must make enough so they dont scrape by? quote it for me, you fuckign idiot
ok, succinctly state your argument retard
You just misrepresented a statement i made, then try to call me a retard after? are you fucking stupid dude?
stop avoiding...state your argument