"Mayorga has to pay the promoter 30%, plus 10-15% to his manager and has to reimburse any training expenses paid by the promoter and/or manager. "
Where do you get this from?? Did you come up with these numbers in your head? A boxer doesn't pay the promoter unless it's Don King the crook. A promoter gets him money after paying expenses including the fighter's purses. Also, it's the manager's responsibility to pay for training expenses.
"JMM fought for 15 grand in a parking lot in Thailand his first fight after drawing with Pac, and some people were saying he was the top fighter at his weight in the world"
It was for $30K, and it was against Chris John in Indonesia. It was a stupid business decision by his trainer/manager after turning down almost a million dollars for the Pacquiao rematch.
"judging by the #'s to much is being held at the top"
You keep ignoring the fact that Zuffa does a fuck of a lot more than rent an arena, hire some bouncers, and rip tickets in half.
They completely produce and run their own broadcasts, 100%. Boxing promoters don't do that (HBO or Showtime do it for them). That means a huge production staff for every event along with all the related expenses.
They produce many hours of television (Unleashed, TUF, All Access, UFN). That means huge staff to make all that happen (along with the associated expenses).
They run the WEC, with all the same expenses and staff needs.
You keep saying the pay isn't fair, but you can't cite any other organization that pays more. Why is that?
You're kidding yourself if you don't think HBO is a boxing promoter.
I'm talkig about the UFC, not other orgs neccesarily. Yeah, they do a lot to promote there product.. but its not like putting TV shows on is an out of pocket expense for the UFC, believe it or not TV makes money as well. If they relied soley on ppv buys to keep the copmany going, there would be no UFC. You can't do a budget break down of.. "well we made 65 million in ppv buys this quater, we'll need half that for t.v and a quarter of that for ourselves... and give the scraps to the people that make the show even a show.." (THE FIGHTERS)
There doing it now because they can get away with it... no one can explain that you make 30 mil (just in ppv buys!!!!) and your fighter payroll (the very same show that just made you 30mil in ppv buys) is under a million dollars. You can try and explain marketing and T.V. shows, arena, rentals, personel until your blue in the face.. but you know what...??? none of that would be happening if it weren't for the FIGHTERS!! No fighteres = none of that stuff You can't justify such a crappy payroll when the only thing your selling is fighting (hmmmm, if that were my company, I would want to take care of Suzy in accounting, not the fighters)
"You can't justify such a crappy payroll when the only thing your selling is fighting"
If the only thing they are selling is fighting then how come the other promotions selling the exact same thing aren't doing shit? Bodog sells fighting and with the #1 fighter in the world did only 13,000 PPV buys. EliteXC sells fighting, has many name fighters (most of their marquee fighters, in fact, are riding on the names they made under the UFC marketing machine), and gets shit ratings on a channel that costs $10 per month. K-1 sells fighting, had legends of the sport competing, and had to give away 99% of their tickets and had shit for PPV buys.
If it's all about the fighters and fighting, how do you explain that?
"You can't do a budget break down of.. "well we made 65 million in ppv buys this quater, we'll need half that for t.v and a quarter of that for ourselves... and give the scraps to the people that make the show even a show..""
You can if you are trying to build a sport practically from scratch rather than just put on a few shows here and there. There's a reason Pride went out of business and why no other organization has been able to do jack (other than K-1 -- in Japan only, of course).
If you don't think it's all the "other" stuff the UFC does (and spends money on) that is the main reason for their success, you are delusional. You can see fights anywhere. Half this forum will tell you that every other organization on the planet puts on BETTER fights than the UFC. So no, your over-simplified "it's the fighters" does not tell the story.
"You can't justify such a crappy payroll when the only thing your selling is fighting (hmmmm, if that were my company, I would want to take care of Suzy in accounting, not the fighters)"
And that's why you're undoubtedly not running a successful big business. If there is a relatively small number of qualified accountants but you can walk into any local MMA show and find a fighter who has never made more than $400 for a fight before, what is your business justification for throwing more money at the fighter?
The fighters negotiate the best contracts they can. If they think they're worth more, they can look for it elsewhere. Just like any other employees in any other business. I'm baffled as to why you refuse to understand that. Especially when all the guys making $7000 are guys who everyone probably bitches about being on the card in the first place ("Why is that nobody/loser/can on the card? This card blows!")
orcus you seem to want to discuss.. first off, you don't know if I have a business or not?? don't make assumptions about me..
I'm trying to point out things I feel the UFC are cutting corners on. They do spend a TON on letting people know about there product.. a very good job... but there is still no way you can justify. (and lets talk about one example I used before) lets just say the only money made was the 30 mil in ppv money (we both know there's more) 30 mil ... lets make 20 mil disapear due to expenses.. 10 mil left over for profit and to pay your most important employee. The payroll was still 676,000 Even if you did compare it to 10 mil. thats still weak as hell.
and you can "BAFFLE" yourself all you want... some don't have options, some don't know any better and quit honestly the UFC is the best for someone that wants to fight in the States.. thers no competition at the UFC's level.. so as long as there paying out more then the next guy.. in the end they can determine the pay.. PLAIN AND SIMPLE the UFC can say... fine you don't want to fight for 30k,, NEXT.. go fight somewhere else for 10k, if your lucky! There price fixing in a sense...
and to me, it sounds like your refusing to understand anything
"there is still no way you can justify."
I guess you didn't read my post.
"honestly the UFC is the best for someone that wants to fight in the States"
Sounds like you've answered your own question. The number on the contract isn't necessarily the be-all, end-all deciding factor.
"so as long as there paying out more then the next guy"
So they pay more than everybody else, they provide the best opportunities to make true "star athlete" level paydays, they promote their fighters and their events infinitely better than anyone else -- how exactly are they dropping the ball, again? Where is the greed that is ruining them?
What is your cutoff? What is the lowest they are "allowed" to offer a fighter? If they offer a guy $7000, it's because they aren't going to cry themselves to sleep if he signs with someone else. It's not their job to sign every fighter on the planet. A guy nobody knows fighting in a prelim no one will see does not "deserve" some arbitrary dollar amount that you've settled on.
"they never break a sweat, they never get hit."
Actually, Don King has been hit before. O'Neil Bell punched out Don King in France late last year/earlier this year after he lost a crooked decision, and his undisputed cruiserweight title to Frenchman Jean-Marc Mermeck.
[Did you just say price fixing??? Where do you come up with this drivel.] - its an expression, it means they can pay the fighters pretty much whatever they want, and there's not to much they can do, other than not fight and damage there career.
-Orcus, the UFC is taking advantage of a situation right now.. there making boat loads of cash and they are not recquired to make a fair payout to the fighters. and I'm not even the one saying it's not fair (i thought it before) They are...!!!
The only way for someone, who is not at the top of the heap, to train professionally is to have sponsors. I would imagine that since the UFCs' future relies on new talent or the "new guy" no one wants to see, you may want to take care of him better. Sounds like if it were up to you leave the pay the same, then when something else takes off, the UFC's dreams of global domination will rely on home grown talent.... or, you will see bigger paydays.
-and trust me moneys not the only thing but (if you take ufc 71, the last where a full payday is documented) and you offer a guy like Din Thomas (for example),who reportdly made 28k ,but lets say there was a ton of bonus money and it was really like.. 80k from the UFC (yea, i know, not happenin) and someone else comes and says Din were XYZ org.(and lets say XYZ org is finacially sound) your a great fighter and we'll offer you 250k (with whatever perks)per fight he won't even know how to spell UFC anymore.
"I would imagine that since the UFCs' future relies on new talent or the "new guy" no one wants to see, you may want to take care of him better."
They do -- they pay him much more than anyone else will and put their marketing behind him if he shows promise. And he knows that if he keeps winning, he will become a "star" with the paydays, sponsorships, and celebrity that come with it.
"Sounds like if it were up to you leave the pay the same"
I guess I am missing the rationale behind volunteering to pay fighters more than they will fight for. If a guy will fight for $7000, why on earth would you pay him $20,000?
"omeone else comes and says Din were XYZ org.(and lets say XYZ org is finacially sound) your a great fighter and we'll offer you 250k (with whatever perks)per fight he won't even know how to spell UFC anymore."
Exactly. And if the UFC feels he is worth it, they will make a counter-offer. And he will choose the best offer, taking into account the money and all the other factors. I really don't see the issue.
"and I'm not even the one saying it's not fair (i thought it before) They are...!!!"
What employee in any field doesn't want -- and think he deserves -- more money?
Who is complaining and what do they want? There is the Randy situation, where he thinks he was not the second-best paid fighter. Dana says he is. We don't know who is right.
Henderson is saying he was made a low offer, but what does that mean? Low compared to what? How much money is he bringing into the company? Was the offer more or less than he made in Pride? If less, is that understandable given the fact that he was champion of literally half of Pride's weight classes while he is 0-1 in the UFC?
I have to admit I don't know what to make of the MMA fan's obsession with what the fighters are paid. I love movies, but I really don't give two shits how much the actors are paid or if the producer pockets much more. If they don't think the rewards (financial and otherwise) justify the work, then they can get another job, just like everyone else. This is just another weird thing for internet fans to get weird over.
[I guess I am missing the rationale behind volunteering to pay fighters more than they will fight for. If a guy will fight for $7000, why on earth would you pay him $20,000?] thats a greedy statement, and thats one way to loose fighters over time and build animosity... IMO a poor attitude to have.
we'ere not dealing with regular employees for the UFC... you can use that rationale with office workers there, not the fighters... its seems your more for greed rather than , what I would see, a fair scale (bigger paydays)
you don't know if I'm a casual fan. or if I'm an athlete myself.. so why make a comment like that?
OH!! HOW THE HELL IS DAN HENDERSON 0-1 in THE UFC???????????????????????
Its sad to say but the UFC is paying these guys for that one fight (15/25 minutes) and thats it. yeah it sucks that some guys are making 5k/5k for that one fight but the fighter is responsible for preparing for that fight properly and the expenses that come with it. You pay a computer guy to come and set up your network, and if he is good and you know he will do the job right he commands a higher payscale. You are paying for the training he already has, not the training that he needs to improve at his job. You aren't responsible for paying for this guys training in the computer field so why is Zuffa required to do the same for some of these fighters.
Does the UFC get a cut for the sponsor deals that fighters get when these fighters are using UFC veteran to sell themselves??? NO.
Its like any other business, you get paid more as you acquire better training and more experience?
"first off do not use oscar's payscale to compare to mma's payscale. oscar has been THEE biggest draw in boxing for almost over a decade if not longer. the guy has been setting PPV records for years. what oscar did is an anomaly"
Maybe it was an anomaly but the fact is the UFC event MADE MORE MONEY!!!!!!!! Get that through your head. DLH maybe a ppv phenom with a huge draw but the fact is he didn't draw as big as Liddell Ortiz II. Does that make sense? Do you comprehend bigger and smaller as desscriptions of size?
"You keep ignoring the fact that Zuffa does a fuck of a lot more than rent an arena, hire some bouncers, and rip tickets in half.
They completely produce and run their own broadcasts, 100%. Boxing promoters don't do that (HBO or Showtime do it for them). That means a huge production staff for every event along with all the related expenses"
The total revenue for the UFC event was more. The fact that HBO didn't have to produce the show only means the UFC cut out having to pay them to do it out of the total event revenue which was bigger than the DLH fight.
"How about it's the going rate given the market you moaning on the internet about this isn't going to change much."
Not with people on the internet insisting that it is OK for the UFC to exploit the fighters.
"I guess you think factory workers should get 100% of the output they produce as well. "
I guess you think factory workers should make 1.7% of the revenue they generate as well. Come on, listen to what we are saying.
"while he is 0-1 in the UFC?"
Actually he beat Newton and Goes at UFC 17 so he was 2-0 in UFC before he fought Jackson.
Whatever... I agree if I were an employer and I new I could exploit my employees because no one else in town was going to be able to offer them more than me even though I knew they deserved it I would go ahead and do it. And I'd be happy to know there would be people like you willing to defend my right to do so.
"Maybe it was an anomaly but the fact is the UFC event MADE MORE MONEY!!!!!!!! Get that through your head. DLH maybe a ppv phenom with a huge draw but the fact is he didn't draw as big as Liddell Ortiz II. Does that make sense? Do you comprehend bigger and smaller as desscriptions of size?"
delahoya had 2.1 million ppv buys and set everyfucking record for a fight. what are you talking about?
oscar has had 3 ppv's more than the biggest UFC event ever.
oscar/PBF - 2.1
oscar/tito - 1.4
oscar/hopkins - 1.1
OSCAR DID THAT. Now the biggest fight in mma was tito/chuck 2
let me ask you something, If they didnt fight in the UFC would they have gotten those numbers? FUCK NO!!!!
DANA MAKES STARS!!
In boxing you do it alot differently.
And thats why boxers get paid alot more than mma'ers. Promoters bid to get the top fights in boxing while fighters would give up there left nut to fight on the top promotion in mma. Cuz when you get to the top promotion, DANA CAN TURN YOU INTO A FUCKING STAR!!!
"LMFAO
You're full of shit! That kind of money was NOT being paid out in 1927 for ANY sporting event...
Were you born yesterday? This is a well-known sports fact. Why don't you try "Googling"?
Ok, I'll help you out.
http://www.ibhof.com/ibhfhvy4.htm
"Although their first encounter was as competitive as most Super Bowls, the public demanded a rematch. And what transpired in that bout provided enough drama for the ages. After a brief retirement, Dempsey returned to the ring and knocked out future champion Jack Sharkey to set up a return bout with Tunney for September 25, 1927.
MORE THAN 104,000 attended Dempsey vs. Tunney II at Soldier Field in Chicago and produced a gate of $2.65 million, a record that stood for 50 years. Dempsey was paid a record $711,000 for the first fight, $450,000 for the second. Tunney got $200,000 and $990,000, respectively. Keep in mind that at that time, Babe Ruth earned his top salary of $80,000."
Tunney made a flat fee plus a percentage of the gate, similar to fighters now making a percentage of the PPV. His total was just under $994,000.
So he wrote a check to Tex Rickard for six grand and change and Tex cut him a check for $1,000,000.00
Tunney framed the check and hung it on the wall in his garage.
That's so crazy money for that time that this guy TOWE has trouble believing it and thinks we're full of shit, or he thinks you're full of shit..hahaha.
In 1927, this was before television so if you wanted to watch an event fight, you had to be there in person to watch. Also, at the time, there was no NBA nor NFL football. There was baseball, horse racing and boxing, and boxing was the #1 sport in America. The Heavyweight champ was the most popular man in the world.