LMAO@ still comparing the UFC to boxing, that guaranteed 10mil was coming straight from the sponsors, casinos pay to host DLH fights because of the crowd they'll draw to town, UFC has to pay to hold an event.
NSAC statements are only a tiny slice of what goes into hosting an event, you'd better beieve there was a hell of a lot more money made off DLH than Ortiz/Liddel, I'm not saying the UFC isn't coming out way in the black, but come on, if there was DLH class money in promoting MMA right now Don King would be all over any fighter with half a name before you could say rubber guard
"try asking what guys on the undercard of Ali fights were making, that's a better question. I know Aaron Pryor made his pro debut for like $500. Marvin Hagler didn't get much more than that for his first fight either"
alot of pro mma guys get 500 for their first fight.
aaron pryor got that for his first fight 30 yrs ago you tell me whats wrong
if you look at the K-1 USA event Lesnar was paid 500k (wikipedia) the whole payout goes well over a million. It might not have been the best in management but some of those guys made serious $$$.. why don't you see payouts like those in the UFC from what I have read they can easily afford to take care of there fighters...
and to have pay thats not reported or in a contract, that would indicate to me an opportunity for management to stiff someone, it just doesn't seem reliable.. the "We'll take care of you later" from my experience, that rarely happens to expectations
absurd if you actually think it will continue to stay that way. the ufc is the first BIG name mma promotion to go mainstream in america, but it won't be the last. once fighters start realizing how poorly they're treated (read: underpaid), they'll jump ship and do what's best for them. why are fighters left with such a bad taste dealing with the ufc? randy? tito? dan? if those gate figures are accurate, it's even more of a joke. obviously SOMEONE is stuffing their pockets with a boatload of cash, and it's not the deserving.
mma fans need to realize this is the current state.
"boxing and MMA are backwards from each other anyway. in boxing, the fighter is the draw, and the UFC has been really smart about making the UFC the draw. Its apples and oranges" - jason hornbuckle
"and to have pay thats not reported or in a contract, that would indicate to me an opportunity for management to stiff someone, it just doesn't seem reliable.. the "We'll take care of you later" from my experience, that rarely happens to expectations"
Their bonuses (ppv percentages, etc) ARE in their contracts, they're just not part of the official fight purse (which is what is reported to the NSAC).
i recall reading about cash under the table types of deals.. after Babalu was Ko'd by Liddell I read he was given an envelope with an undisclosed amount.. now how can you count on that type of transaction? I read about the $ amounts and I'm amazed at the size (lack-of) and only thought that a lot were given in bonuses and such.. but now with all this talk about fighters not being happy and what not.. they really are getting paid that little. There pro athletes and IMO some of the most entertaining out there. How can you be a part of a company that makes..?? millions and millions. and some guys make less than 100k a year (some one avg. and fights 4-5 times a year) on paper from the UFC
"LMAO@ still comparing the UFC to boxing, that guaranteed 10mil was coming straight from the sponsors, casinos pay to host DLH fights because of the crowd they'll draw to town, UFC has to pay to hold an event.
NSAC statements are only a tiny slice of what goes into hosting an event, you'd better beieve there was a hell of a lot more money made off DLH than Ortiz/Liddel, I'm not saying the UFC isn't coming out way in the black, but come on, if there was DLH class money in promoting MMA right now Don King would be all over any fighter with half a name before you could say rubber guard "
What would be the other modes of income for the fight that were not the PPV and gate revenue?
To put your comment in perspective... If the fighters in the DLH fight were paid the same percentage of the total fight revenue as the UFC fighters then there is either $20million dollars of undisclosed pay for the UFC fighters or there was an additional $1.25 billion dollars of undisclosed income from the DLH fight (based on 1.7% pay out of the total fight revenue)
There is a severe disparity between payment of boxers and MMA fighters. There is no reason for it other than the greed of the promoters. It's not like the top MMA fighters make even half of what the top boxers make. There is no comparison. It is apples and oranges... the problem is the oranges are sour. (I did just think of the oranges are sour thing at the end... frankly I think it's pretty good :))
your talking about M-1... ok, thats the risk there taking on opening a new event
UFC is different, there making money now, there main draw are there fighters... the fighters say there not happy with there pay case in point: from wikipedia
The number of pay-per-view buys for UFC 61 in the United States was approximately 775,000, which generated gross PPV revenue of approximately $30,960,000. [10]
The disclosed fighter payroll for the event was $676,000. [11]
those were just ppv buys (where most of the money came from) Does that not seem odd and very off!
and IMO you can't argue about sponser money, thats not out of the promoters pocket, thats for the fighters from there sponsers
Most UFC fighters and unfortunatly most of the fans as well are way to stupid to see the problem of the greed thats running like a rapped ape in the UFC.
are you a promoter? so the UFC is the victim when there are talks of fighters, that dedicate there lives to training and fighting, are not being properly compensated?
"How can you be a part of a company that makes..?? millions and millions. and some guys make less than 100k a year"
I don't know, why don't you ask 99% of all employees of every company on earth?
"You can make more than 7k for 3 months work in a shit job with less physical toll on your body and less expenses for trainers/food/etc."
You'd better let the fighters know that, then. For some reason, they keep choosing to fight. Any fighter who is unhappy has other options. Look at Nick Diaz -- he didn't like the UFC's offer, so he went to EliteXC.
"They are not paid for 1 night, they are paid for the training that went into preparing for that fight."
Says who? When Hughes supposedly trained a week or two for some fights, did they cut his pay?
"after Babalu was Ko'd by Liddell I read he was given an envelope with an undisclosed amount.. now how can you count on that type of transaction?"
You can't. He negotiated a contract he felt comfortable in signing. If he was hoping to supplement that to some specific degree with some random bonus that no one ever promised him, that's his problem.
"There is a severe disparity between payment of boxers and MMA fighters. There is no reason for it other than the greed of the promoters."
Zuffa is a big business. They have tv production for their numerous shows, shit-tons of marketing in all media, etc etc. What does Golden Boy do? Sets up the fight. That's about it. Find a guy who manages one fighter they want to match up with one of their guys and negotiate a deal with him; get HBO or Showtime to put together the broadcast and run the ads and do all the other marketing. Comparing a boxing promoter to a company that does almost everything every step of the way themselves as Zuffa does is ridiculous.
["How can you be a part of a company that makes..?? millions and millions. and some guys make less than 100k a year"
I don't know, why don't you ask 99% of all employees of every company on earth?]
-Most people dont work for Zuffa and aren't pro fighters, look at the #'s then look at how many fighters participate in one show.. then look at how that $ is ditstributed, The promoter is making TONS! its great there making a profit.. but if thats how they want to pay out, then there gouging the public and laughing all the way to the bank.
Your right they don't have to sign sh!t.. maybe some guys can be personal trainers or somethin and make 50k a year.. you can fight and make more but judging by the #'s to much is being held at the top, especially when your product relies soley on fighting and the fighters
"Gene Tunney made just under $1,000,000 to fight a rematch against Jack Dempsey in 1927. Inflation-adjusted, that's roughly $20 million."
"There wasn't income tax back then either."
Are you sure about there being no income taxes? I thought the reporting of taxes was required, but no one got tax money taken out up front. Everyone had to report at the end of the year and pay if they owed. Off topic but I am curious about that one. I thought the with-holding was what came along in WW2, but the taxing was already there.
first off do not use oscar's payscale to compare to mma's payscale. oscar has been THEE biggest draw in boxing for almost over a decade if not longer. the guy has been setting PPV records for years. what oscar did is an anomaly.
two - look at all the big names who have lined up to fight oscar - caesar chavez, mayweather, hopkins, mosley, etc. these guys might love the challenge of fighting a good fighter, but if you don't think these guys were thinking $$$ your ignorant. mayweather has been fighter for years, he's fought some big names - judah, etc. but that fight against oscar was BY FAR the biggest payday he has EVER had, wouldn't you want to retire from the fight game after making 20+ mil?!
three - who makes THE REAL $ in boxing? the promoters. who makes the real $ in mma? the promoters. don f'ing king has probably never put on a pair of boxing gloves but he has probably made more - gross total - than any boxer in history with maybe an exception to oscar. they never break a sweat, they never get hit, and they walk away with a HUGE chunk out of BOTH fighters purses. why do you think all these boxers are starting there own promotional companies - oscar who has golden boy promotions, makes crazy bank because he promotes his own fight so he doesn't have to pay a middle man, sugar ray leonard, goosen, etc.
lastly - if you think boxers are just making $ hand over fist your retarded. boxers are STRUGGLING just as much as mma guys. mickey ward (look him up) is one of the ballsiest fighters i've ever watched. the guy had 51 fights, some of them the greatest i've ever seen (ward v gatti I) and the guy didn't have a 1 mil purse till his i believe 2nd to last fight in a rematch against gatti. and of course that's before he paid off the promoters, manager, trainers, etc.
and yes mma payscale sucks. any fighter - kickboxing, mma, boxing, etc. who puts there physical/mental health at risk should get PAID as much as he possibly can, unfortunately thats unreasonable and the world doesn't work that way.
You're right, no tax witheld. Not sure what kind of tax shelters Gene Tunney or Jack Dempsey used or how much tax they paid.
Dempsey made $450,000 for that fight.
Tex Rickard, the promoter, got most the revenue from ticket sales which amounted to over $2.6 million. The fight was held at Soldier Field with over 100,000 in paid attendance.
"I don't know how long it took for boxers but I do know Ali made approx $62 million through out his entire career. And that was quite a long time ago.
Even if you go back to the time before Joe Louis the top prize fighters were making a fair amount of money. "
Don't forget Jack Dempsey v. Tunney got $1 million each and this was in 1927. Joe Louis made over $5 million in his career and this was during the Great Depression. In the late 1970s, Ali was in the Guiness Book of World Records for having the largest fortune in sports, but that was then and has since been surpassed by other boxers and Michael Jordan with his endorsements.
As I've been saying, the UFC has been using their new-found wealth in buying rival organizations like WFA and Pride Fighting to further strenghten their monopoly on MMA. As long as the UFC has no strong competition, the UFC can and will pay as little as possible. The way they hoard their money is a disgrace.