Ideally, we would be like the IJF. It's just impractical to get away from this model when our talent pools are so shallow. IBJJF can't be run like IJF, not viable when you look at how entrenched Judo is in different countries.
Triple_B -The Mongolian judo team showed up to IBJJF world's one year and competed at blue belt IIRC.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see more cases like this as BJJ gains popularity in the judo world. Most professional judokas retire before the age of 30 and many who turn to BJJ later in life may still have that competetive drive. I don't think you can have a blanket rule that says all black belts in judo or those with 10+ years of "grappling" experience must compete in the BJJ black belt division since the reality is that many judoka who meet the aforementioned criteria would struggle to beat a good BJJ blue belt in a BJJ competition. But what about those high level judoka, like the one Mick Collins talks about (see above story). Sorry Mick. Ultimately, it may have to come down to the discretion of their BJJ coach as to what division is most appropriate for them and also fair to their competition. This doesn't prevent sandbagging if the coach chooses to be dishonest, but I can't think of any other better options.
I think they should abolish the color belt “world champ” but leave the master’s, like in Judo. I guess the main point is to make $$$ right now.
I know few national level Judo players who went to BJJ recently and train it somewhat seriously – they won european/world medals at purple or so. However, the international level ones do usually retire for good after heavy Judo career – do coaching, admin, etc. What the Japanese dude did is kind of weird and is unusual.
MickColins -The first IBJJF tournament I did was as a white belt. The dude who won our division (and armbarred me) was a judo black belt. He medaled in the Asian Judo Championships as a black belt. And entered an IBJJF tournament as a white belt.
I just dont get sandbaggers and never will. Do they feel they have accomplished something? It’s like going down to the YMCA and beating toddlers at basketball.
So, serious question. What division do you think this guy should have competed in?
The problem with Judokas is you can be a really good black belt and have minimal newaza due to the way you are trained. Or you can be really, really good on the mat.
And what about gi vs no gi? I've seen a judo olympian lose in the 1st round at purple belt at. alocal IBJJF. And I've seen a olympic wrestler lose in the blue belt division in a gi.
shen -I also remember seeing "Crazy" Bob Cook from AKA win the white belt division at a BJJ tournament. He had been training eight years at that point, according to him.
I knew a Luta Livre Black Belt from Brazil that (barely) won the IBJJF world's at Blue Belt. He had been grappling over 10 years.
I'd bet there are probably no gi tournaments where the "Advanced/Expert " division is easier than the intermediate division.
I mean, watching the last nogi worlds, it was just a bunch of nonsense; absurd sandbaging everywhere. There should be belt rank time limits on belts for competetors. You should NOT be able to compete for 6 years as a blue belt. They're destroying the entire point of having different colored belts ranks. They really should get rid of "World Championships" for anyone below Black Belt. It creates his nonsense. People think it's cool to have these super high level Blue Belts-- BUT NO! Blue belts are NOT supposed to be ultra high level grapplers who can tap a lot of Black Belts. --They're supposed to be Blue Belts! That is the entire point of having a colored belt system so people can compete with their PEERS, guys who have been training ROUGHLY the same amount of time. When you have 10 year Blue Belts, it ruins the system for all the honest people.
Yep!
The whole idea of competition is undermined when people compete against people who offer no competition. What does it prove? And what is to be gained?
John Clarke -MickColins -The first IBJJF tournament I did was as a white belt. The dude who won our division (and armbarred me) was a judo black belt. He medaled in the Asian Judo Championships as a black belt. And entered an IBJJF tournament as a white belt.
I just dont get sandbaggers and never will. Do they feel they have accomplished something? It’s like going down to the YMCA and beating toddlers at basketball.
So, serious question. What division do you think this guy should have competed in?
The problem with Judokas is you can be a really good black belt and have minimal newaza due to the way you are trained. Or you can be really, really good on the mat.
And what about gi vs no gi? I've seen a judo olympian lose in the 1st round at purple belt at. alocal IBJJF. And I've seen a olympic wrestler lose in the blue belt division in a gi.
Hmm... good question. I’d say at least purple belt. The dude’s first match, he threw the guy and armbarred him in like 30 seconds. He threw the next guy just as fast and I was like “Whelps, my ass ain’t getting thrown” so I pulled half guard. I spent a wee bit of time trying to get a halfguard sweep before he passed, got 3/4th mount and smashed me into little bitty white belt pieces.
I think an experienced brown or black in bjj would have beaten the dude. A good purple probably would have, too. I could see the guy entering purple or, if ballsy, Brown. But we were white belts. He blew threw us like a tank through a lego set.
I recall being an impresional white belt in 2009, and going with my team to the Gracie Nationals here in So Cal.
We had just gotten a new Black Belt who moved from Brazil to LA and was getting helped out by my coach who owned the gym. Everyone was super stoked on him cause he had a totally different style than our coach and was going to compete right away.
He enters in the BB division of course, but there’s only 1 other guy in his weight class, and that’s when I first noticed how different that guy’s Gi was. I was matside taking pictures of the event.
I overhear my Coach tell him, “D, this guy a judoka. Pull half guard.”
They go out there and sure enough the dude tossed him with a nasty osoto gari right into knee on belly, and he spins for the armlock. Match lasts 20 seconds.
They do round robin, their second match he pulls half guard, gets smashed for 5 1/2 mins, finally sweeps from half and gets 2 points, they scramble, he pulls again and wins 2-0.
Third match the guy throws him with an Arm spin, BAM! Right into another armbar for the tap. After he got his medal he came up to me and gave me his card, asked if I could email him some of the pics I took.
When I got home i google’d him and sure enough he was a US National Team member. Can’t recall his name, but damn it was shocking and interesting to see at the start of my bjj journey.
MickColins -John Clarke -MickColins -The first IBJJF tournament I did was as a white belt. The dude who won our division (and armbarred me) was a judo black belt. He medaled in the Asian Judo Championships as a black belt. And entered an IBJJF tournament as a white belt.
I just dont get sandbaggers and never will. Do they feel they have accomplished something? It’s like going down to the YMCA and beating toddlers at basketball.
So, serious question. What division do you think this guy should have competed in?
The problem with Judokas is you can be a really good black belt and have minimal newaza due to the way you are trained. Or you can be really, really good on the mat.
And what about gi vs no gi? I've seen a judo olympian lose in the 1st round at purple belt at. alocal IBJJF. And I've seen a olympic wrestler lose in the blue belt division in a gi.
Hmm... good question. I’d say at least purple belt. The dude’s first match, he threw the guy and armbarred him in like 30 seconds. He threw the next guy just as fast and I was like “Whelps, my ass ain’t getting thrown” so I pulled half guard. I spent a wee bit of time trying to get a halfguard sweep before he passed, got 3/4th mount and smashed me into little bitty white belt pieces.
I think an experienced brown or black in bjj would have beaten the dude. A good purple probably would have, too. I could see the guy entering purple or, if ballsy, Brown. But we were white belts. He blew threw us like a tank through a lego set.
That's fair.
shen -I also remember seeing "Crazy" Bob Cook from AKA win the white belt division at a BJJ tournament. He had been training eight years at that point, according to him.
I knew a Luta Livre Black Belt from Brazil that (barely) won the IBJJF world's at Blue Belt. He had been grappling over 10 years.
I'd bet there are probably no gi tournaments where the "Advanced/Expert " division is easier than the intermediate division.
I mean, watching the last nogi worlds, it was just a bunch of nonsense; absurd sandbaging everywhere. There should be belt rank time limits on belts for competetors. You should NOT be able to compete for 6 years as a blue belt. They're destroying the entire point of having different colored belts ranks. They really should get rid of "World Championships" for anyone below Black Belt. It creates his nonsense. People think it's cool to have these super high level Blue Belts-- BUT NO! Blue belts are NOT supposed to be ultra high level grapplers who can tap a lot of Black Belts. --They're supposed to be Blue Belts! That is the entire point of having a colored belt system so people can compete with their PEERS, guys who have been training ROUGHLY the same amount of time. When you have 10 year Blue Belts, it ruins the system for all the honest people.
yeah but how often was bob in the kimono?
so shen you dont like ceaser gracie that much huh? He holds people back just a little.
Bojack Horseman -shen -I also remember seeing "Crazy" Bob Cook from AKA win the white belt division at a BJJ tournament. He had been training eight years at that point, according to him.
I knew a Luta Livre Black Belt from Brazil that (barely) won the IBJJF world's at Blue Belt. He had been grappling over 10 years.
I'd bet there are probably no gi tournaments where the "Advanced/Expert " division is easier than the intermediate division.
I mean, watching the last nogi worlds, it was just a bunch of nonsense; absurd sandbaging everywhere. There should be belt rank time limits on belts for competetors. You should NOT be able to compete for 6 years as a blue belt. They're destroying the entire point of having different colored belts ranks. They really should get rid of "World Championships" for anyone below Black Belt. It creates his nonsense. People think it's cool to have these super high level Blue Belts-- BUT NO! Blue belts are NOT supposed to be ultra high level grapplers who can tap a lot of Black Belts. --They're supposed to be Blue Belts! That is the entire point of having a colored belt system so people can compete with their PEERS, guys who have been training ROUGHLY the same amount of time. When you have 10 year Blue Belts, it ruins the system for all the honest people.
<span class="User-353277" id="userPost63569256">yeah but how often was bob in the kimono? so shen you dont like ceaser gracie that much huh? He holds people back just a little.</span></blockquote>
I don't know how long Bob wore a Kimono, this was like 20 years ago.
There's an element of trust and being on the "honor system" when you rank your students
There's nothing impressive about being a Blue Belt for a decade and winning a tournament in the Blue Belt division. It's kinda pathetic, when you think about it.
Coaches who hold students back for extremely long periods of time tend to do so simply to satisfy their own ego.
John Clarke -MickColins -John Clarke -MickColins -The first IBJJF tournament I did was as a white belt. The dude who won our division (and armbarred me) was a judo black belt. He medaled in the Asian Judo Championships as a black belt. And entered an IBJJF tournament as a white belt.
I just dont get sandbaggers and never will. Do they feel they have accomplished something? It’s like going down to the YMCA and beating toddlers at basketball.
So, serious question. What division do you think this guy should have competed in?
The problem with Judokas is you can be a really good black belt and have minimal newaza due to the way you are trained. Or you can be really, really good on the mat.
And what about gi vs no gi? I've seen a judo olympian lose in the 1st round at purple belt at. alocal IBJJF. And I've seen a olympic wrestler lose in the blue belt division in a gi.
Hmm... good question. I’d say at least purple belt. The dude’s first match, he threw the guy and armbarred him in like 30 seconds. He threw the next guy just as fast and I was like “Whelps, my ass ain’t getting thrown” so I pulled half guard. I spent a wee bit of time trying to get a halfguard sweep before he passed, got 3/4th mount and smashed me into little bitty white belt pieces.
I think an experienced brown or black in bjj would have beaten the dude. A good purple probably would have, too. I could see the guy entering purple or, if ballsy, Brown. But we were white belts. He blew threw us like a tank through a lego set.
That's fair.
To be fair in Brazil the tradition is that if you are a black belt in judo you are auto ranked to purple in bjj when you start in order to even out things.
Hunter V -John Clarke -MickColins -John Clarke -MickColins -The first IBJJF tournament I did was as a white belt. The dude who won our division (and armbarred me) was a judo black belt. He medaled in the Asian Judo Championships as a black belt. And entered an IBJJF tournament as a white belt.
I just dont get sandbaggers and never will. Do they feel they have accomplished something? It’s like going down to the YMCA and beating toddlers at basketball.
So, serious question. What division do you think this guy should have competed in?
The problem with Judokas is you can be a really good black belt and have minimal newaza due to the way you are trained. Or you can be really, really good on the mat.
And what about gi vs no gi? I've seen a judo olympian lose in the 1st round at purple belt at. alocal IBJJF. And I've seen a olympic wrestler lose in the blue belt division in a gi.
Hmm... good question. I’d say at least purple belt. The dude’s first match, he threw the guy and armbarred him in like 30 seconds. He threw the next guy just as fast and I was like “Whelps, my ass ain’t getting thrown” so I pulled half guard. I spent a wee bit of time trying to get a halfguard sweep before he passed, got 3/4th mount and smashed me into little bitty white belt pieces.
I think an experienced brown or black in bjj would have beaten the dude. A good purple probably would have, too. I could see the guy entering purple or, if ballsy, Brown. But we were white belts. He blew threw us like a tank through a lego set.
That's fair.
To be fair in Brazil the tradition is that if you are a black belt in judo you are auto ranked to purple in bjj when you start in order to even out things.
I had never heard that. Seems arbitrary as there are many very good judo BB that aren’t close to some good bjj purple on the mat. I know ibjjf makes a judo BB compete at a minimum at blue belt.
It may not always be that way but in general it is (I just know this as my teacher is brazilian). You are either auto ranked to purple or at minimum to blue belt. Pretty sure they just evaluate you at first and then give you a decision. I know one of our now black belts was offered his blue belt when he first started bjj as he was a old school judoka but he declined and started fro white belt instead. Its a person to person thing at this point but I do know this is how it used to be for a lot of places.
Nowadays many Bluebelts have close to 10 years BJJ experience and years of competitive experience through the juvenile ranks.The days of adults training 2-3 years and winning big tournaments at Bluebelt are over.