Ricco Rodriguez, following his 2001 loss to Belfort in the quarterfinals of the Abu Dhabi Submission Grappling Championships (absolute division), said that Belfort was physically the strongest person he had ever grappled with.
Didnt Arona say Vitor could have been the best sport bjj guy if he had focused on it more?
Vitor and Randy have had 3 fights against each other. I can only imagine how strong Randy Couture is to manhandle Vitor the way he did.
Damn!
Ttt 
ttt
MarcusRenatoBlackBelt -MostLegit -OshKos B'Josh All American Blanket -Musashi - Vinny would submit him in grappling but probably doesn't want anything to do with him in MMA... I could be wrong though.Vinny would own him
In MMA?
I think Vinny would lose boxing at a distance to Vitor, but Vinny would beat Vitor in the clinch. he could dirty box him like Couture did. Vinny is chiselled and probably stronger than Victor, and he would thai plum him and knee him to Bolivia.
i think it goes like the vinny vs bader fight. honestly i think vitors style is just a bitch for most grapplers.
Kneeblock - 3 things.
1) Vitor is legitimately very good, but has always had the albatross hanging around his neck of having been promoted straight from purple (I believe) to black before his UFC entrance (for largely hype reasons) and then having all that stuff with Carlson adopting him, dubbing him Victor Gracie and then the UFC commentators having the gall to say he and Rickson Gracie were the best in the world on the ground. He won the Rio State championships, which were a pretty big deal for a local comp back in the day and I believe he may have won either the Brasileiros or the Worlds at Blue or Purple belt.
It had been said at the time that the reason Vitor and Joe Charles basically implemented a "no striking" rule in their fight at UFC: Ultimate Japan was so Vitor could prove his grappling prowess to the larger BJJ community. Charles was a guy who was known as being pretty tough despite the fact that he looked like somebody's uncle Larry. All the Brazilians knew he knew the submission game and wasn't a total noob due to his Judo background so a few people ducked him back in the day. Vitor defeating him as impressively as he did in basically what amounted to a grappling match gave him a little needed cred boost at home. Carlson really had crowned him a prodigy because he learned very quickly, but it's said that his hands were what really seduced Carlson into taking him under his wing.
2) He did okay in ADCC and proved he was legit, particularly by totally dismantling Ricco Rodriguez. In 2001, Ricco was probably near the best shape he'd ever been in generally and prior to that he'd been a terror on the mats. He used to wipe the floor with guys back in the old Neutral Grounds days (mostly due to being 300 lbs) and had even won in one of the early ADCCs. Vitor completely dominated him on the mat in their match, which was impressive and showed how legit he was. His match with Sudo was also a domination, but the weight difference obviously makes that match a lot less competitive than the marquee value of the names would have you believe.
His match with Arona was seemingly competitive, but it's widely considered to be one of many ADCC works or jobs that took place back then alongside Jean Jacques vs. Pe de Pano, Matt Serra vs. Feitosa, Feitosa vs. Renzo, Galvao vs. Drysdale and a few others. The Brazilian tradition of "opening the way" by abdicating for your teammate couldn't be employed in ADCC because the rules prohibited it. Vitor and Arona had a light flow roll for 10 minutes and then Arona advanced. They were both in BTT at the time as it had just been formed in the aftermath of ADCC 2000. Vitor didn't stick around long before going to another team, but he was there long enough to be considered a teammate. Technically, Vitor was the senior student as Arona only got his black belt in 2000, but I guess they considered him to have the better chance to win the whole thing or maybe they figured he needed the money and prestige more since Vitor by then already had a successful MMA and TV career. His match with Ricardo Almeida was a non-event since Almeida had a messed up knee from his earlier matches with Arona (at weight) and Jean Jacques (in the absolute) so basically Vitor held Ricardo's leg in half guard for a couple minutes and then it was a wrap. Ironically, Almeida would have a similar knee problem in the next ADCC in his match with David Terrell (another phenom of sorts) after he'd gone to war with Jacare for 30-40 minutes.
3) Vitor's wrestling is one of the most overlooked aspects of his game, but he's been training hard in it since at least 1998 or '99. He was one of the first guys to hook up with Darrel Gholar when he came down to Brazil and he's always had excellent explosive penetration on his single in particular. Obviously it wasn't enough to deal with Randy Couture's superior pedigree but it helped him hold his own with Tito and helped him give Chuck all he could handle in their fight at UFC 37.5.
Knowledge!!
I do recall the rumors that he was hurried along in rank, due to his hands.
If I recall correctly another wrinkle was that his team did not want him getting distracted by the idea of flirting with Brazil's Olympic Boxing team. Apparently at the time Vitor had ideas or hopes of being able to get involved in the program ???
I heard Carlson Gracie held his students for a long time between ranks. I bet Vitor was already black belt level when he had his purple belt.
Kneeblock - 3 things.
1) Vitor is legitimately very good, but has always had the albatross hanging around his neck of having been promoted straight from purple (I believe) to black before his UFC entrance (for largely hype reasons) and then having all that stuff with Carlson adopting him, dubbing him Victor Gracie and then the UFC commentators having the gall to say he and Rickson Gracie were the best in the world on the ground. He won the Rio State championships, which were a pretty big deal for a local comp back in the day and I believe he may have won either the Brasileiros or the Worlds at Blue or Purple belt.
It had been said at the time that the reason Vitor and Joe Charles basically implemented a "no striking" rule in their fight at UFC: Ultimate Japan was so Vitor could prove his grappling prowess to the larger BJJ community. Charles was a guy who was known as being pretty tough despite the fact that he looked like somebody's uncle Larry. All the Brazilians knew he knew the submission game and wasn't a total noob due to his Judo background so a few people ducked him back in the day. Vitor defeating him as impressively as he did in basically what amounted to a grappling match gave him a little needed cred boost at home. Carlson really had crowned him a prodigy because he learned very quickly, but it's said that his hands were what really seduced Carlson into taking him under his wing.
2) He did okay in ADCC and proved he was legit, particularly by totally dismantling Ricco Rodriguez. In 2001, Ricco was probably near the best shape he'd ever been in generally and prior to that he'd been a terror on the mats. He used to wipe the floor with guys back in the old Neutral Grounds days (mostly due to being 300 lbs) and had even won in one of the early ADCCs. Vitor completely dominated him on the mat in their match, which was impressive and showed how legit he was. His match with Sudo was also a domination, but the weight difference obviously makes that match a lot less competitive than the marquee value of the names would have you believe.
His match with Arona was seemingly competitive, but it's widely considered to be one of many ADCC works or jobs that took place back then alongside Jean Jacques vs. Pe de Pano, Matt Serra vs. Feitosa, Feitosa vs. Renzo, Galvao vs. Drysdale and a few others. The Brazilian tradition of "opening the way" by abdicating for your teammate couldn't be employed in ADCC because the rules prohibited it. Vitor and Arona had a light flow roll for 10 minutes and then Arona advanced. They were both in BTT at the time as it had just been formed in the aftermath of ADCC 2000. Vitor didn't stick around long before going to another team, but he was there long enough to be considered a teammate. Technically, Vitor was the senior student as Arona only got his black belt in 2000, but I guess they considered him to have the better chance to win the whole thing or maybe they figured he needed the money and prestige more since Vitor by then already had a successful MMA and TV career. His match with Ricardo Almeida was a non-event since Almeida had a messed up knee from his earlier matches with Arona (at weight) and Jean Jacques (in the absolute) so basically Vitor held Ricardo's leg in half guard for a couple minutes and then it was a wrap. Ironically, Almeida would have a similar knee problem in the next ADCC in his match with David Terrell (another phenom of sorts) after he'd gone to war with Jacare for 30-40 minutes.
3) Vitor's wrestling is one of the most overlooked aspects of his game, but he's been training hard in it since at least 1998 or '99. He was one of the first guys to hook up with Darrel Gholar when he came down to Brazil and he's always had excellent explosive penetration on his single in particular. Obviously it wasn't enough to deal with Randy Couture's superior pedigree but it helped him hold his own with Tito and helped him give Chuck all he could handle in their fight at UFC 37.5.
Good read. 
Musashi -Kneeblock - 3 things.
1) Vitor is legitimately very good, but has always had the albatross hanging around his neck of having been promoted straight from purple (I believe) to black before his UFC entrance (for largely hype reasons) and then having all that stuff with Carlson adopting him, dubbing him Victor Gracie and then the UFC commentators having the gall to say he and Rickson Gracie were the best in the world on the ground. He won the Rio State championships, which were a pretty big deal for a local comp back in the day and I believe he may have won either the Brasileiros or the Worlds at Blue or Purple belt.
It had been said at the time that the reason Vitor and Joe Charles basically implemented a "no striking" rule in their fight at UFC: Ultimate Japan was so Vitor could prove his grappling prowess to the larger BJJ community. Charles was a guy who was known as being pretty tough despite the fact that he looked like somebody's uncle Larry. All the Brazilians knew he knew the submission game and wasn't a total noob due to his Judo background so a few people ducked him back in the day. Vitor defeating him as impressively as he did in basically what amounted to a grappling match gave him a little needed cred boost at home. Carlson really had crowned him a prodigy because he learned very quickly, but it's said that his hands were what really seduced Carlson into taking him under his wing.
2) He did okay in ADCC and proved he was legit, particularly by totally dismantling Ricco Rodriguez. In 2001, Ricco was probably near the best shape he'd ever been in generally and prior to that he'd been a terror on the mats. He used to wipe the floor with guys back in the old Neutral Grounds days (mostly due to being 300 lbs) and had even won in one of the early ADCCs. Vitor completely dominated him on the mat in their match, which was impressive and showed how legit he was. His match with Sudo was also a domination, but the weight difference obviously makes that match a lot less competitive than the marquee value of the names would have you believe.
His match with Arona was seemingly competitive, but it's widely considered to be one of many ADCC works or jobs that took place back then alongside Jean Jacques vs. Pe de Pano, Matt Serra vs. Feitosa, Feitosa vs. Renzo, Galvao vs. Drysdale and a few others. The Brazilian tradition of "opening the way" by abdicating for your teammate couldn't be employed in ADCC because the rules prohibited it. Vitor and Arona had a light flow roll for 10 minutes and then Arona advanced. They were both in BTT at the time as it had just been formed in the aftermath of ADCC 2000. Vitor didn't stick around long before going to another team, but he was there long enough to be considered a teammate. Technically, Vitor was the senior student as Arona only got his black belt in 2000, but I guess they considered him to have the better chance to win the whole thing or maybe they figured he needed the money and prestige more since Vitor by then already had a successful MMA and TV career. His match with Ricardo Almeida was a non-event since Almeida had a messed up knee from his earlier matches with Arona (at weight) and Jean Jacques (in the absolute) so basically Vitor held Ricardo's leg in half guard for a couple minutes and then it was a wrap. Ironically, Almeida would have a similar knee problem in the next ADCC in his match with David Terrell (another phenom of sorts) after he'd gone to war with Jacare for 30-40 minutes.
3) Vitor's wrestling is one of the most overlooked aspects of his game, but he's been training hard in it since at least 1998 or '99. He was one of the first guys to hook up with Darrel Gholar when he came down to Brazil and he's always had excellent explosive penetration on his single in particular. Obviously it wasn't enough to deal with Randy Couture's superior pedigree but it helped him hold his own with Tito and helped him give Chuck all he could handle in their fight at UFC 37.5.
Accurate post..
Great post kneeblock
I think the line was
"Vitor entered the plane from brazil as a blue, when he landed in the states he was a black belt".
Tyy
At the time he received his BB, perhaps he wasn't at that level yet, (maybe he was), but by now I'm sure he has proved he is.
He may not be the elite level BJJ Black belt, but that is not what people argue. They argue whether he's a Black belt in BJJ. There are PLENTY of legit BJJ black belts who would have trouble grappling with a Dan Henderson or the like. He has legit skills, his showings in ADCC were impressive (its the freakin ADCC) and he's a good wrestler.
I stopped wondering his BJJ level a LOOOOONGGGGGG time ago
Solid thread!
I read or saw somewhere that Frank Mir rolled with Vitor and said he was legit.
Voted up Kneeblock
ttt
Kneeblock - 3 things.
1) Vitor is legitimately very good, but has always had the albatross hanging around his neck of having been promoted straight from purple (I believe) to black before his UFC entrance (for largely hype reasons) and then having all that stuff with Carlson adopting him, dubbing him Victor Gracie and then the UFC commentators having the gall to say he and Rickson Gracie were the best in the world on the ground. He won the Rio State championships, which were a pretty big deal for a local comp back in the day and I believe he may have won either the Brasileiros or the Worlds at Blue or Purple belt.
It had been said at the time that the reason Vitor and Joe Charles basically implemented a "no striking" rule in their fight at UFC: Ultimate Japan was so Vitor could prove his grappling prowess to the larger BJJ community. Charles was a guy who was known as being pretty tough despite the fact that he looked like somebody's uncle Larry. All the Brazilians knew he knew the submission game and wasn't a total noob due to his Judo background so a few people ducked him back in the day. Vitor defeating him as impressively as he did in basically what amounted to a grappling match gave him a little needed cred boost at home. Carlson really had crowned him a prodigy because he learned very quickly, but it's said that his hands were what really seduced Carlson into taking him under his wing.
2) He did okay in ADCC and proved he was legit, particularly by totally dismantling Ricco Rodriguez. In 2001, Ricco was probably near the best shape he'd ever been in generally and prior to that he'd been a terror on the mats. He used to wipe the floor with guys back in the old Neutral Grounds days (mostly due to being 300 lbs) and had even won in one of the early ADCCs. Vitor completely dominated him on the mat in their match, which was impressive and showed how legit he was. His match with Sudo was also a domination, but the weight difference obviously makes that match a lot less competitive than the marquee value of the names would have you believe.
His match with Arona was seemingly competitive, but it's widely considered to be one of many ADCC works or jobs that took place back then alongside Jean Jacques vs. Pe de Pano, Matt Serra vs. Feitosa, Feitosa vs. Renzo, Galvao vs. Drysdale and a few others. The Brazilian tradition of "opening the way" by abdicating for your teammate couldn't be employed in ADCC because the rules prohibited it. Vitor and Arona had a light flow roll for 10 minutes and then Arona advanced. They were both in BTT at the time as it had just been formed in the aftermath of ADCC 2000. Vitor didn't stick around long before going to another team, but he was there long enough to be considered a teammate. Technically, Vitor was the senior student as Arona only got his black belt in 2000, but I guess they considered him to have the better chance to win the whole thing or maybe they figured he needed the money and prestige more since Vitor by then already had a successful MMA and TV career. His match with Ricardo Almeida was a non-event since Almeida had a messed up knee from his earlier matches with Arona (at weight) and Jean Jacques (in the absolute) so basically Vitor held Ricardo's leg in half guard for a couple minutes and then it was a wrap. Ironically, Almeida would have a similar knee problem in the next ADCC in his match with David Terrell (another phenom of sorts) after he'd gone to war with Jacare for 30-40 minutes.
3) Vitor's wrestling is one of the most overlooked aspects of his game, but he's been training hard in it since at least 1998 or '99. He was one of the first guys to hook up with Darrel Gholar when he came down to Brazil and he's always had excellent explosive penetration on his single in particular. Obviously it wasn't enough to deal with Randy Couture's superior pedigree but it helped him hold his own with Tito and helped him give Chuck all he could handle in their fight at UFC 37.5.
slow clap
Great post. Thanks.
Kneeblock - 3 things.
1) Vitor is legitimately very good, but has always had the albatross hanging around his neck of having been promoted straight from purple (I believe) to black before his UFC entrance (for largely hype reasons) and then having all that stuff with Carlson adopting him, dubbing him Victor Gracie and then the UFC commentators having the gall to say he and Rickson Gracie were the best in the world on the ground. He won the Rio State championships, which were a pretty big deal for a local comp back in the day and I believe he may have won either the Brasileiros or the Worlds at Blue or Purple belt.
It had been said at the time that the reason Vitor and Joe Charles basically implemented a "no striking" rule in their fight at UFC: Ultimate Japan was so Vitor could prove his grappling prowess to the larger BJJ community. Charles was a guy who was known as being pretty tough despite the fact that he looked like somebody's uncle Larry. All the Brazilians knew he knew the submission game and wasn't a total noob due to his Judo background so a few people ducked him back in the day. Vitor defeating him as impressively as he did in basically what amounted to a grappling match gave him a little needed cred boost at home. Carlson really had crowned him a prodigy because he learned very quickly, but it's said that his hands were what really seduced Carlson into taking him under his wing.
2) He did okay in ADCC and proved he was legit, particularly by totally dismantling Ricco Rodriguez. In 2001, Ricco was probably near the best shape he'd ever been in generally and prior to that he'd been a terror on the mats. He used to wipe the floor with guys back in the old Neutral Grounds days (mostly due to being 300 lbs) and had even won in one of the early ADCCs. Vitor completely dominated him on the mat in their match, which was impressive and showed how legit he was. His match with Sudo was also a domination, but the weight difference obviously makes that match a lot less competitive than the marquee value of the names would have you believe.
His match with Arona was seemingly competitive, but it's widely considered to be one of many ADCC works or jobs that took place back then alongside Jean Jacques vs. Pe de Pano, Matt Serra vs. Feitosa, Feitosa vs. Renzo, Galvao vs. Drysdale and a few others. The Brazilian tradition of "opening the way" by abdicating for your teammate couldn't be employed in ADCC because the rules prohibited it. Vitor and Arona had a light flow roll for 10 minutes and then Arona advanced. They were both in BTT at the time as it had just been formed in the aftermath of ADCC 2000. Vitor didn't stick around long before going to another team, but he was there long enough to be considered a teammate. Technically, Vitor was the senior student as Arona only got his black belt in 2000, but I guess they considered him to have the better chance to win the whole thing or maybe they figured he needed the money and prestige more since Vitor by then already had a successful MMA and TV career. His match with Ricardo Almeida was a non-event since Almeida had a messed up knee from his earlier matches with Arona (at weight) and Jean Jacques (in the absolute) so basically Vitor held Ricardo's leg in half guard for a couple minutes and then it was a wrap. Ironically, Almeida would have a similar knee problem in the next ADCC in his match with David Terrell (another phenom of sorts) after he'd gone to war with Jacare for 30-40 minutes.
3) Vitor's wrestling is one of the most overlooked aspects of his game, but he's been training hard in it since at least 1998 or '99. He was one of the first guys to hook up with Darrel Gholar when he came down to Brazil and he's always had excellent explosive penetration on his single in particular. Obviously it wasn't enough to deal with Randy Couture's superior pedigree but it helped him hold his own with Tito and helped him give Chuck all he could handle in their fight at UFC 37.5.
FRAT
Fine Read And Thanks
Kneeblock - 3 things.
1) Vitor is legitimately very good, but has always had the albatross hanging around his neck of having been promoted straight from purple (I believe) to black before his UFC entrance (for largely hype reasons) and then having all that stuff with Carlson adopting him, dubbing him Victor Gracie and then the UFC commentators having the gall to say he and Rickson Gracie were the best in the world on the ground. He won the Rio State championships, which were a pretty big deal for a local comp back in the day and I believe he may have won either the Brasileiros or the Worlds at Blue or Purple belt.
It had been said at the time that the reason Vitor and Joe Charles basically implemented a "no striking" rule in their fight at UFC: Ultimate Japan was so Vitor could prove his grappling prowess to the larger BJJ community. Charles was a guy who was known as being pretty tough despite the fact that he looked like somebody's uncle Larry. All the Brazilians knew he knew the submission game and wasn't a total noob due to his Judo background so a few people ducked him back in the day. Vitor defeating him as impressively as he did in basically what amounted to a grappling match gave him a little needed cred boost at home. Carlson really had crowned him a prodigy because he learned very quickly, but it's said that his hands were what really seduced Carlson into taking him under his wing.
2) He did okay in ADCC and proved he was legit, particularly by totally dismantling Ricco Rodriguez. In 2001, Ricco was probably near the best shape he'd ever been in generally and prior to that he'd been a terror on the mats. He used to wipe the floor with guys back in the old Neutral Grounds days (mostly due to being 300 lbs) and had even won in one of the early ADCCs. Vitor completely dominated him on the mat in their match, which was impressive and showed how legit he was. His match with Sudo was also a domination, but the weight difference obviously makes that match a lot less competitive than the marquee value of the names would have you believe.
His match with Arona was seemingly competitive, but it's widely considered to be one of many ADCC works or jobs that took place back then alongside Jean Jacques vs. Pe de Pano, Matt Serra vs. Feitosa, Feitosa vs. Renzo, Galvao vs. Drysdale and a few others. The Brazilian tradition of "opening the way" by abdicating for your teammate couldn't be employed in ADCC because the rules prohibited it. Vitor and Arona had a light flow roll for 10 minutes and then Arona advanced. They were both in BTT at the time as it had just been formed in the aftermath of ADCC 2000. Vitor didn't stick around long before going to another team, but he was there long enough to be considered a teammate. Technically, Vitor was the senior student as Arona only got his black belt in 2000, but I guess they considered him to have the better chance to win the whole thing or maybe they figured he needed the money and prestige more since Vitor by then already had a successful MMA and TV career. His match with Ricardo Almeida was a non-event since Almeida had a messed up knee from his earlier matches with Arona (at weight) and Jean Jacques (in the absolute) so basically Vitor held Ricardo's leg in half guard for a couple minutes and then it was a wrap. Ironically, Almeida would have a similar knee problem in the next ADCC in his match with David Terrell (another phenom of sorts) after he'd gone to war with Jacare for 30-40 minutes.
3) Vitor's wrestling is one of the most overlooked aspects of his game, but he's been training hard in it since at least 1998 or '99. He was one of the first guys to hook up with Darrel Gholar when he came down to Brazil and he's always had excellent explosive penetration on his single in particular. Obviously it wasn't enough to deal with Randy Couture's superior pedigree but it helped him hold his own with Tito and helped him give Chuck all he could handle in their fight at UFC 37.5.
This was a really great post