The fight ended with Kawajiri in a triangle, as well. He may have known time was running out, but still. Gill did more damage on the feet and on the ground. He had a great showing, it was Kawajiri's positioning that won the fight. Great fight!
I thought Kultar could have gotten the nod.
When he was stuffing the takedown he was landing some shots. When he got taken to the ground he was landing shots from the bottom. When he was in Kawa's guard briefly he did more GnP damage then Kawa did in the whole fight.
Kawa took down Gill 6-7 times and passed his guard. He wasn't able to inflict much damage from the top. He almost had Gil in a head and arm choke and a RNC but other than that he didn't do much.
There is NO WAY Black Mamba won that fight.
Now was it a destructive beatdown by Kawajiri?
Certainly not.
Was Gill impressive in how he was able to defend and survive?
Definitely.
But was it still a clear and unquestionable win for Kawajiri?
Definitely.
Inversely, could anyone have reasonably expected Black Mamba to have been declared the winner?
Certainly not.
And when fight was over were people really thinking that the winner was in doubt and that the decision could go either way?
Nope.
"good showing by Gill, but he didn't win"
yep
really? what damage did he do? he took him down and had a near sidechoke and a near choke while he was on Black Mamba's back. please explain.
While I feel Kawajiri did enough to get the nod, I didnt see either choke as being close to finishing.
If it really is like PRIDE criteria:
Effort to finish fight by KO or sub: Kawajiri (near subs)
Damage given to opponent: Kawajiri (near submissions may also count for damage criteria)
Standing Combinations & Ground Control: Kawajiri
Takedowns and Defense: Kawajiri
Aggressiveness: Kawajiri (seeking dominant position, attempting to finish)
The thing that this fight reminded of is that either gil is a shameless cheater or reacts to takedowns purely on instinct. His fight against Dam was an even worse disaply but this guy shameless will grab the ropes.
I wasn't impressed with Kawajiri in this fight. Granted, he did go for alot of submission attempts, but at no time was Gill in trouble. He merely made the fight boring. Gill was looking to bang and was always moving. Kultar was a great sport after the fight. I would give the fight to Kultar in a rematch.
near submissions account for damage now?
.....
anyway, i second what Foos said.
They've always counted for damage. At least according to a PRIDE judge.
I would think at least damage would go to Kultar. He left the fight with out a scratch on him. I can't say that for Kawajiri.
Look for forward to more Mamba in DREAM's
Now, did Mamba constantly grab the ropes before being tossed over in this fight at any point?
came close once
No way Mamba won that fight. He fought well, I was impressed that he survived, particularly when Kawajiri had the side choke but I didnt think it was controversial in any way.
I can see what people are saying about damage but when you watch the fight there are only a couple of moments where anything of consequence landed, one knee while Kawajiri was in side control for one, but they wwere pretty few and far between, no way can you overide the dominant position and control Kawajiri had for the whole fight because of those couple of spurts
lol at people's heath herring mentality and their obsession with "damage."
gill did better than we all expected but was just surviving.
Black Mamba needs to move up in weight.
I can't believe this is really being discussed.
Not a fan of Kawajiri. He's the stereotypical strong wrestler whose fights tend to be very boring unless the other guy can make it exciting.
Orcus, does that mean you think that Mamba won or you think that Kawajiri won but is boring?
"He's the stereotypical strong wrestler whose fights tend to be very boring unless the other guy can make it exciting."
- Uhhh, what? Only his last 2 fights have really been less than exciting.
Before that he had a Fight-of-the-Year candidate with Melendez in an extremely close loss (which was really a toss-up) - and since GnPing the then-#1 Shaolin to a stoppage to win the Shooto title, 5 of his next 6 wins had been by finish.
That comment actually sounds far more applicable to Sean Sherk than Kawajiri - where Sherk has never finished a ranked opponent in his career.
And btw, Sherk also beat Franca much more by positional dominance (which for me was still very impressive) than actual damage inflicted, much the same way Kawajiri did with Gill.
"I can't believe this is really being discussed."
- Seriously.
KJ is NOT boring - he is one of my favorite fighters.