Hi everyone
Was Ray Steele a legit hooker? I know he trained Lou Thesz a lot but was that in Catch, freestyle and/or Greco-Roman wrestling or Pro Wrestling?
Catch
Yes he was a hooker. Gave Ed Lewis a good go for his money in a shoot but had to retire from the match due to bleeding feet. ouch
I believe he was one of the better leg-locker in catch history.
Thanks Scuffler, How about Jim Londos? It seems that people have a split opinion on him. Some say hooker and others say worker. I have also heard that he was running from Lewis, is that true?
I always heard that Londos was a performer.
Lewis / Londos is a very long story. I actually tell a good bit of it on a thread over at the history forum. The thread is "Yukio Tani & Catch Wrestlers".
Many have labeled Londos a worker. I believe he was actually a pretty good wrestler / hooker who did some shoots and didn't fair too bad. He certainly had a good knowledge of submissions. If I'm not mistaken Lou Thesz called him a "dangerous hooker" in his video biography.
Ray Steele chose him as a trainer for his shoot with Lewis, so that should say something in itself.
Thesz also tells a story about Steele schooling an olympic wrestler who then brags that Steele didn't impress him. Steele gets him back in the ring again and snaps his ankle just seconds into the match.
I believe much of the negative opinion on both Steele and Londos come from author John Gilbey (R.W. Smith) who really didn't have a good knowledge of the subject but wrote as though he did.
Good point Scuff about Gilbey. Thanks for the info!
Its funny you mentioned Gilbey. I just read his book (It was a split book on boxing and wrestling) just a few months ago. I found it at the library. After reading it I felt like punching him! He sure did love Hackenschmidt and hated Gotch! Hated Ali too! It was probably the most negative sports book I ever read!
Yeah, I believe that book and the publicity machine that was probably provided by the Indian government are also the main reason so many believe Gama to have been unbeatable. He was far from it.
They even went so far as to doctor photos to make him look bigger and more powerful than he was. I think he was actually like 5'7" 230-250, depending on what stage of his career.
Most of Gama's matches were throwing contests only. First one down is the loser. No ground work at all.
Then there are the stories of how easily he beat Stan Zbysko. What is usually not mentioned is that the second match was a throwing contest only. The first match which did include ground-work is nearly always described as very one-sided, with Zbysko hugging the mat, but I've seen another account from some of Stan's trainer were they claim that Stan pinned him and the ref completely ignored it.
Portuguese2002, see if you can get a copy of Mike Chapman's "Gotch: World's Greatest Wrestler" for a completely different view of Hack and Gotch.
And I nearly forgot! Gilbey (who is really R.W. Smith) claimed that Gotch fouled Jenkins!!!!! Holy Cow!!!! Jenkins was perhaps the dirtiest wrestler of the era. His hands were so strong and calloused that he could and would regularly bring blood to the more sensitive areas on his opponents body.
"If I'm not mistaken Lou Thesz called him a "dangerous hooker" in his video biography."-
scuffler, is that on sale anywhere?
I believe that Mike Chapman sells it at the wrestling museum.
http://www.wrestlingmuseum.org/
Gilbey is RW Smith??? Are you serious?
Yes he is. I was surprised when I found out also. It was TFS over at the history forum who first informed me of this.
Notice how he made Jack Sherry out to be the ultimate hooker / ripper? Well in "Fall Guys" the author who was a close friend of Fred Grubmier's tells how "Grubby" schooled Sherry with ease. Taking a sizable sum of money from the carnival that Sherry was wrestling for as well as some fat side bets. The carnival owner, armed with a shotgun, chased Sherry out of town.
Interesting, I just ran a search to find out if there was conformation to be found on the net. There is, but more interesting is that I found that Smith has now admited that much of "Western Boxing and World Wrestling" that he wrote as Gilbey is fiction.
Wow, I'll just add "Western Boxing and World Wrestling" to the list of books I don't like by RW Smith.