Ive always thought if Bruce was alive today he would be loving what is happening now with martial arts... and you can bet your ass he would be involved!
Cross training was around long before Bruce Lee, but during his era it was all but forgotten. At that time TMA was king. He emphasized training the athlete for physical competition and adapting techniques that were effect while his counterparts were doing the same kata's their masters had done, just because. He adapted his training to the physical attributes of his students instead of forcing some long lost masters attributes on his students. He did lack in some ranges, but based on the popular styles of the era, he did the best with what was accessible.
BL didn't agree with competition or testing yourself against the best. I'd hardly tie MMA to him.
Guys like LeBell, hell even Benny Urquidez actually cross trained in realistic combat arts and competed at a high level. Bruce gets hyped over them soley because of his movie career.
People also need to realize that Bruce Lee didn't have the advatage of looking things up on the internet. There were no UFC events. He did what he could based on theory and sparring with the guys he had around. He used books and studied with whoever could show him something. I think the fact that people are debating his contribution to martial arts long after his death ends the argument. The guy was a pioneer. He went back to the basics, took what he thought worked, trashed the rest, and opened the minds of countless people.
OneScoup -
Guys like LeBell, hell even Benny Urquidez actually cross trained in realistic combat arts and competed at a high level. Bruce gets hyped over them soley because of his movie career.
Exactly. All one needs to know: Bruce Lee was an actor who died of a drug overdose while cheating on his wife.
"People like the Gracies, Waldemar Santana and Kimura practiced what Bruce only talked about. And they did it decades earlier. Low kicks, elbow strikes, headbutts, takedowns and submissions where all part of their arsenal..."
"John Little is a professional nuthugger. Guys like Rolls Gracie were ahead of Bruce."
Your missing the point of the thread lol. The Gracies were still using one style. Gracie jj. The point is not in if they fought or didn't fight it the concept of mixed martial arts. The Gracies were close to traditionalists in they had one style that they drew shit from. The point is Bruce had the orginal breakthrough of realizing that there can be no one system or style. You have to use what works regardless of where it came from. The Gracies were using jj. They were not training in MT or Silat or whatever else they could find.
Jeet Kune Do is a concept not a style. It is an idea. The idea of mixing martial arts.
Bruce Lee=MA's Einstein.
Bruce was a busy mutherfucker im sure if he hadn't discovered the Gracie he would have eventually.
Kai Tremeche -OneScoup -
Guys like LeBell, hell even Benny Urquidez actually cross trained in realistic combat arts and competed at a high level. Bruce gets hyped over them soley because of his movie career.
Exactly. All one needs to know: Bruce Lee was an actor who died of a drug overdose while cheating on his wife.
Without Bruce 90% of people here would not be here. Hell this forum prolly would not exist. It's like TUF. If there was no TUF. 80% of the people envolved in it would not be if they didn't flip to spike and see that train wreck.
Without Bruce everyone would be in a Karate dojo right now learning Katas from a Chuck norris chain school. Course nobody would know who the fuck Chuck norris was. Just this one guy that owns my karate school...
Not to be disrespectful to Bruce Lee but why is he consider a forefather of MMA, when guys like Ad Santel, Kimura, Count Coma & Carlson Gracie were fighting years before Bruce Lee.
MickColins -FloridaStriker -
Your missing the point of the thread lol. The Gracies were still using one style. Gracie jj. The point is not in if they fought or didn't fight it the concept of mixed martial arts. The Gracies were close to traditionalists in they had one style that they drew shit from. The point is Bruce had the orginal breakthrough of realizing that there can be no one system or style.
You don't know what you are talking about so just stop. Rolls Gracie was active in wrestling, BJJ, had a blackbelt in Judo,etc... He didn't need shitty books assembled by John Little to tell him such. Santana was a Capoiera master and a BJJ blackbelt. Years before Bruce ever saved the Green Hornet from Professor Frankenputz. And Carlson Sr. stressed physical fitness and taught the masses BJJ against the wishes of some of his family members long before Bruce opened his Kung Fu schools.
I think you both are right.Florida striker has a great point, but I think us real Bruce Lee fans know he saw beyond that. The title to this thread is great, because its true...We ARE living his dream.
But who knows, maybe his dream wasnt, in a cage, nor a ring. Maybe is was a series of own self-created styles going at it on a mat.
The Gracies dominitaed because it wasnt just "one" style. Bjj dominated everything else.And it did it in a time where Bruce's dream was just blossiming to the world. Exactly what he wanted.
Now? We get to see the best fighters in the world under one roof. I bet he'd be in the front row, old as fuck, and hammerred as fuck, watching one of his creations.
Of course we have to give props to Helio, Rolls, LeBell, etc. And we do. That doesn't take away anything from the fact that Bruce Lee inspired (and continues to inspire) many people to cross-train, keep open-minded and seek their own paths.
More people have started on that path reading the Tao of JKD than reading the Gracie Way. And the fact that most of them have never heard of Rolls Gracie is not Bruce Lee's fault.
We are living BL's dream. We are also living Helio's dream.
Yeah, I'd say we are living Bruce's dream not because more people are COMPETING in MMA but because more people see MMA as a path they want to take with their martial arts. You guys make some good points about Helio and them - and also that Bruce had no way of knowing about them without the internet and UFC. I think when he got hip to them or spent more time with LeBell he would have really changed his thinking; all good philosophers do.
Gotta say something about John Little, though. He is a nuthugger, and I am really getting annoyed at everything I have ever read by him. This commentary on JKD I am reading is great because it's Bruce's own words and ideas BUT when Little gets involved he muddies the waters and contributes to the whole "Bruce was a bodhisattva" thing.
I mean, my main problem with Little isn't his editorializing but his sloppy way of organizing the material - he does not cite his sources! He has made no attempts to organize and cross reference his materials. In the book I am reading he will drop a quote from Bruce that I KNOW is from a TV interview and not cite it as such. Absolutely unacceptable for anyone who wants to be taken seriously as a writer or editor.
"taught the masses BJJ against"
I need to stop? Again your missing the fuckin point you dense fuck. He taught gracie jj. He was wrestling yada yada but what was he teaching?
sit your gracie nuthugging ass down and stfu
From: MickColins Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 10 hours ago
Edited: 03/17/09 11:29 PM
I don't know what im talking about...
"Without Bruce everyone would be in a Karate dojo right now learning Katas from a Chuck norris chain school. Course nobody would know who the fuck Chuck norris was. Just this one guy that owns my karate school..."
LOL, b/c of Bruce, everyone WAS/IS in a karate dojo right now learning katas. He's done more to TMA-ize the martial arts than anyone in the last 100 years. It may have not been what he intended, but it's what happened.
Bruce might have preached "MMA", but his greatest influence was to get people into TMAs.
IMO, Bruce was a dedicated martial arts hobbyist that used his notoriety as a movie star and the fact that he was the only asian in Hollywood to sell himself as some kind of martial arts authority.
I've been saying for a long time that Bruce's greatest contribution was to get people interested in the martial arts in general. Not necessarily opening anyone eyes to any effective combat art/style/methodology.
What the Gracies did was build on that influence. Without Bruce Lee's contribution that got people interested in the martial arts, the Gracies most likely wouldn't have had anywhere near the "fanbase" to influence.
Bruce was a movie star. Kimura, Gracie etc. were fighters. Bruce brought bullshido to the public. Gracie brought the real.
Even the spirit of Bsrizpac would essentially agree with this thread.
Chuck Norris, he's saving your ass whether you like it or not....
Just thought of something funny.
If we are living Bruce Lee's vision, we're in trouble, because he was near sighted!
Liyon - "Without Bruce everyone would be in a Karate dojo right now learning Katas from a Chuck norris chain school. Course nobody would know who the fuck Chuck norris was. Just this one guy that owns my karate school..."
LOL, b/c of Bruce, everyone WAS/IS in a karate dojo right now learning katas. He's done more to TMA-ize the martial arts than anyone in the last 100 years. It may have not been what he intended, but it's what happened.
Bruce might have preached "MMA", but his greatest influence was to get people into TMAs.
IMO, Bruce was a dedicated martial arts hobbyist that used his notoriety as a movie star and the fact that he was the only asian in Hollywood to sell himself as some kind of martial arts authority.
Truth.