What if the amount of time to secure a winning pin were reduced from 25 seconds to 10? How do you guys think it would change, if at all, the way people go about their newaza? Do you guys think it would make people work faster on the ground, in particular those guys who are on the bottom? Maybe make them a bit more explosive and maybe make it so that referees allow a bit more newaza since there might be more action on the ground?
I haven't thought this out a lot,but I think that the tendency to turtle would increase more at first.
Cid Gumban
how would shortening the pin-time change the way newaza time is allocated??? i dont see the connection at all.
and, shortening it would be a bad idea. the entire principle of a pin is to be able to hold it for a duration, not a moment.
The juji pin would be a good ippon scoring move, I think, if the time was reduced.
There had been talk at the IJF of reducing it to 20 seconds.
The time was reduced to 25 seconds because of the statistics of succesful pin escapes.
I think 10 seconds would be to short, for the same reason Josh stated.
Ben R.
I really hope they do not decrease it further. I think it should be longer
judo would become more and more one dimensional.
They'd call it wrestling.
Why not change it: just because it currently stands at 25 seconds doesn't mean it's "appropriate".
If turtling is the concern, make a pin of a turtle a hold down too... that would definately get people moving!
"If turtling is the concern, make a pin of a turtle a hold down too... that would definately get people moving! "
If getting hooks in and back mount counted as a pin, then I'm sure turtling strategies would change.
A face down pin rule would be good, I think. However, I have heard it said that a face down pin, as in traditional JJJ, usually requires some sort of joint lock to be effective.
Ben R.
If you allow the back mount as a pin, it will be the end of foward throws, like uchimata, seoi nage, harai goshi etc...
And if there were not forward throws, then we'd all be doing BJJ...
"If you allow the back mount as a pin, it will be the end of foward throws, like uchimata, seoi nage, harai goshi etc... "
I don't think so. Everybody acts like getting back mount and keeping it is so easy. It's not. You would really have to have the guy immoblized.
Ben R.
The past 30 sec was considered a huge drop to the 25 sec. I think i
heard runor of the 20 sec as well but I wouldn't count on it any time
soon. Insofar as amount of newaza time is concerned - you need to
have people that understand newaza. This is the big key. I was
refereeing in Brazil last week and saw a fantastic newaza move
developing, but I was in the chair and had no help of not letting the
referee call the matte. I was pleased to see the center referee let it go
and a fantastic choke happened within seconds. The point being is that
if your referee doesn't realize nor appreciate newaza then they will
never improve the development of newaza because the athletes and
coaches will not bother practicing that method.
David
Ben,
Regarding the reduction of pin time from 30 seconds to 25 seconds, you said that,
"The time was reduced to 25 seconds because of the statistics of succesful pin escapes". What do you mean? Did they figure out that pin escapes didn't really happen anyway and that a reduction of 5 seconds in time wouldn't make a big difference? Or did they figure out that far too many people were able to escape pins when allowed 30 seconds?
fs..
i believe that in a large majority of the cases those people who were pinned for 25 seconds were held for the additional 5 almost all the time. that is why they decided to decrease the time to 25 seconds becuase it really didnt make much of a difference.
JR has got it correct - that is one of those things things that Kojima
and crew got right.
unlike that decision about falling backward with kataguruma.. as if that is any more dangerous than suki-nage or uranage.. i hope that barcos really looks into that sometime soon.. if he does, i just might not be retired all that long. =) jk.
i once saw a guy try to stand stiff and block a drop seio-nage..
that was a long day for his family after seeing them put a neck brace on him and having himt aken to the ER..
disallowing drop seio in the kid divisions is easily one of the best rule changes ive ever seen.