(No I do not consider myself an expert on the matter:P)
As I said - it is a school of thought and it pops up in every expertise research chapter / article.
However music, science and chess are all areas where Ericssons term "deliberate practice" (of which one must aquire 10 000 hours) is so much clearer than in sports.
Also with sports it is very clear that there is a far broader range of genetic abilities (e.g. does anyone really believe that 10 000 hours of practice is the main ingredient to Usain Bolt's or Michael Phelps's success and that anyone can do it if dedicated enough?).
Take BJ Penn for example - I think he reached his "expertise" way before 10k hours.
Anyone interested in this topic take a look also in "deliberate play" concept by Jean Cote...
There's no doubt that practice is one key variables. However speaking about some general 10k hours rule across the activities is reaching way way too far imo.
Yeah, BJ Penn is someone I have been thinking about when reading this material. He reached black belt in 3.5 years, if I recall correctly. That means he would of had to put in 8 hours a day 7 days per week to reach 10,000 hours by the time he won the Mundials. I doubt that is what occurred.
Trichoke7 - Yeah, BJ Penn is someone I have been thinking about when reading this material. He reached black belt in 3.5 years, if I recall correctly. That means he would of had to put in 8 hours a day 7 days per week to reach 10,000 hours by the time he won the Mundials. I doubt that is what occurred.
at the time he wouldnt have considered himself an expert though. he was really good at a couple things but not an expert on the whole of BJJ.
But isn't expert a relative term? Is their some percentile one must reach in relation to other people?
Otherwise, it's safe to say that their is no such thing as an expert in most sciences.
i wont/wouldnt call myself expert but i do feel i can teach the art to a certain degree... the term "expert" is a given in tune to the eye of the beholder imo
i feel my instructors are experts myself ...however as humble as they are they would most likely NEVER feel that way as nor admit they were (experts) mainly due to the fact they know of or feel someone is WAAAY better than them...which is the way i feel to them in the same instance.
Jorx -Trichoke7 - No, the 10,000 hour rule has been verified empirically.
State your references which would be relevant and implying causality in (combat) sport setting or perish:)
I don't really want to get into an argument right now... But it is the very field I work in - sport psychology and one of my labs big projects is research on sport expertise development so please believe me I have read tens of textbooks and articles from 80s to present day on that very topic.
The original studies were done on musicians...
The 10k hours is a nice idea and really easy to kling on. The reality however is much more complex:)
Additional studies have been done outside of that stuff. Don't know much about it, but I've listened to crap on it. I think the best book to sum it up is Outliers.
Most black belts will say they aren't experts too.
I think being awarded a black belt is the truest sign of mastery though. Anything before that is silly.
An expert would have a red belt... that he only wears to keep his gi closed.
i believe you guys are reading too much into what the OP was asking?He basically wants to know when are you considered a pro so you can do the pro tourneys or the super fights for money.I would say at brown belt unless you are a Ryan Hall type Purple belt and you compete and are constantly winning the Purp and No-Gi adv. divisions at decent sized tourneys.Otherwise probably at Brown
Ageed. The 1st place cash starts getting good at brown belt.
I had a guy call the other day said he had just went pro as a blue belt from another state. I didnt have the heart to tell him that after over 14 years training I have never heard of such a thing.
Brad Peplow
Expert by one of these definitions is someone who constantly is able to perform better than +2 standard deviatitions...
I'm wondering because I was a bluebelt for 7 years, but had been grappling, doing jiu jitsu and wrestling off and on since 1996. When I did tournys I would be in the advanced/expert catagory (I wouldn't do gi -blue belt). I didn't like doing much gi training and don't care about belts so my belt rank was only blue.
I have been in the advanced/expert for years as a blue belt going up against pruples, browns, and blacks - and doing very well.
Trichoke7 - Yeah, BJ Penn is someone I have been thinking about when reading this material. He reached black belt in 3.5 years, if I recall correctly. That means he would of had to put in 8 hours a day 7 days per week to reach 10,000 hours by the time he won the Mundials. I doubt that is what occurred.
That's actually EXACTLY what occurred. BJ's 3.5 year black belt is always perceived that he trained on a 'normal' training shedule, the fact is he moved to Ca with now friends and no family and practically lived at Ralph's academy. He trained everyday (yes EVERYday), and trained all day. By his own admission he was completely obsessed. BJ packed 10 years of training and mat time into his 3.5 years. He may have received it in 3.5 but his hours were equal to the average of any other balck belt.
It isn't just the amount of time used for becoming skilful but more importantly the QUALITY of time.
In other words what is done in the time given as well as how it is done, in terms of quality, is extremely important.
BJ Penn not only put in alot of time but he also made sure he didn't waste that time by doing alot of wasteful and unproductive things.
BJ Penn, in one interview, stated that when he practice he would DRILL non-stop throughout the entire practice session. He said he wouldn't take breaks or spend time "talking story" (his words). He would pick one position, drill numerous times, then pick another position, drill it numerous times, he would do this non-stop until the practice session was over.
Most people don't have that type of discipline.
Just ask Brandon Quick or Ari Bowden,arn't they experts ????