“Get over it”…get over what? Penn isn’t even close to being one of my favorite fighters. Thread is interesting. Shouldn’t you be in the og making threads about cotton vs polyester or something??
You can’t comprehend the argument at hand. I said Edgar is a bad match up for penn. I also said I rank bj higher on my all time list at lw.
By your logic you have Hallman ahead of Hughes on your all time ww list correct?
I’d draw you a pic if I could.
Cmon bro he clearly was diminished in the 2nd fight he looked like his dog died otw to the cage
You’re funny. Not intentionally, which makes it even more amusing. Kind of sad too, but still funny.
I don’t think anyone has made the argument that head-to-head matchups are the only determining factor. Totality of career is clearly a factor.
I don’t think the random guy from the crowd who beat Benji Radach is a better all time MMA fighter than Benji Radach. Why? Totality of career.
Dennis Hallman was a good fighter who won lots of bouts against lesser fighters, lost most fights against the highest level of fighter, but just happened to have a couple great victories over an eventual champion in Matt Hughes. It was early in Matt’s career, he developed into a much better fighter later, but he was still a tough order and Hallman caught the wrestler who had minimal submission experience twice. Congrats to Dennis. The rest of Hallman’s career shows those 2 victories to be anomalies, rather than illustrations of his usual level of performance. Next best victory: maybe John Makdessi? Ben Saunders? late stage Karo? Not a ton of meat on the bone.
Frankie Edgar is an elite champion. Has participated in 9 title fights, headlined numerous other cards, his victories are phenomenal, his losses are all to other elite fighters, and half of those he arguably should have been declared the winner. Frankie was 3 years into his MMA career when he was thrown to dominant champion BJ as a sacrificial lamb. Frankie danced all over him while fatboy stood in the middle of the cage, pouting and breathing heavy not really trying to fight. The “GOAT lightweight” lost a close decision, people considered it both an off night and a robbery.
So BJ got his instant rematch, and what happened? He gets his ass beat even worse. This is in middle of the absolute greatest run of his career, against a relative rookie who half the world felt like didn’t actually beat BJ the first time. Edgar DOMINATED BJ in the rematch, skill for skill, for 25 minutes straight. It wasn’t like BJ was a guy early in his career who had some glaring weakness in his game that was exploited, it was the greatest lightweight of all time, skilled in every area, getting picked the fuck apart and outfought by a better fighter. So Frankie pulls ahead 2-0 head-to-head. What next?
Frankie has the 2 Bendo fights, arguably wins both, goes 0-2. Fights Aldo, the 145 GOAT, and gives him the toughest fight of his career at that time. Goes on a 5 fight run: Charlies Oliveira, BJ #3, Cub Swanson, Urijah Faber, and Chad Mendes. These guys are all some of the greatest champions and title contenders the lighter weights have ever seen. Frankie wins them all and finishes 3 of the 5 fights, including ragdolling BJ like an absolute child. Gets another shot at Aldo, loses. Next 2 fights? Jeremy Stephens, Yair Rodriguez. Excellent fighters. Better than anyone BJ beat in his title run. Frankie beats them both.
So in 1 case it’s Dennis Hallman, whose highlight wins are Hughes x2, Saunders, Karo, and Makdessi
And in the case of Frankie it’s BJ Penn x3, Gray Maynard, Charlies Oliveira, Cub Swanson, Urijah Faber, Chad Mendes, Jeremy Stephens, and Yair Rodriguez. And in the case of the 2 Bendo fights, the media was split on who won the first fight, but it was unanimous that Edgar was the better man in the 2nd fight.
But hey, who’s to say that’s more impressive than beating Diego Sanchez and Joe Stevenson?
I was at 127 when he fought Fitch, the crowd was in shock at the result. They thought Fitch won.
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There is no way. It’s a myth. BJ on his best day couldn’t beat Frankie on his best day, Frankie wins that decision every single time
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There you go! Nicely written. I inferred – incorrectly you say – from previous posts that the head to head record was being weighted too heavily in terms of ranking the all-time greats.
The rest of it can and will be argued forever. At a certain point it just gets repetitive. We’ve reached that point.
As far as the guy above…do you not see that I’ve repeatedly said Edgar is a bad match up for bj? You may be right, and DECISION is the operative word there. Give Penn a fly swatter and maybe he has a better chance.
I’d contemplate putting Dustin in my top 5, as wild as that sounds.
Other than Jon Jones, off the top of my head, I can’t think of anyone who’s bush hogged a list of fighters like this.
Poirier has impressed the shit out of me the last 4-5 years.
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I forgot who the thread was about until this post
lmao whatever dude. Slick attempt to pull out, it’s a discussion about LW GOAT prospects and you threw a name in. Why not mention Shinya Aoki or someone else? Because you don’t believe they’re in the convo, but you believe BJ is. There’s literally no other way to interpret your post.
That loss to Michael Johnson is so off putting. Just shows how deep 155 is, anyone in the top 20 could compete with a top 5 any given night.
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Prime Frankie is a very interesting matchup for Khabib.
Dustin is the second best LW ever by my count. Just ended Conor’s career as a top fighter.
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Thought this before tonight. He’s finished a lot of great 155ers.
I dont care what anyone says BJ was robbed of that fitch fight.
he also went up and faught machida at LHW.
guy gave zero fucks. and no one missed a BJ Penn fight.
my all time favourite fighter.
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he won that first frankie fight too imo.
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Was that fight at 155?
no, the fight was brought up and we are discussing it. its a forum, try and keep up.
Try and keep it relevant, everyone’s so desperate to keep BJ in the mix for LW greats that they have to bring up draws in other weight classes.