Who's Excited For the UFC Debut of Hatsu Hioki?

Underground
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Wasa-B - "Who are the magical JMMA powerhouses who haven't already came and lost in the US? Please, do enlighten me."



Not like they havent lost at all mostly but Anderson, Shogun, Rampage, Dan.



Also, while the general point of your post is correct, like everyone else on the UG, you're either cherry picking or stretching to make the point.



Melendez spent significant amounts in JMMA and Ishida beat Melendez once and Kawajiri arguably did as well.



Kid was already losing in Japan prior to coming over. Kang got finished twice in the UFC just as he did in Japan against Akiyama and Moussasi.



Uno did not have a great K1 run. He lost 4 times in K1 and once in Dream before he came back and went 0-2-1 not 0-3-1.



Im not delusional either. I thought the idea of Hioki being the guy to beat Aldo was far fetched too. But i dont think all your examples above are entirely fair.



Dude, Anderson fought 7 times in Japan, 10 times in Brazil. He also was not a JMMA powerhouse, he was submitted twice in PRIDE. He is however the very best, no question about it.



Shogun was a complete animal in PRIDE, but is 4-3 in the UFC. He did win the belt in devistating fashion however.



Rampage did have 18 fights in PRIDE, but he also had 13 fights in the US. However, he has really made an impact in the UFC, definitely a good example.



Hendo is a great example, but he also did not storm through the UFC. He had back to back losses (albeit to both champions who were also in PRIDE) and then beat a green Palhares, had a close fight with Franklin, and wrecked Bisping. 



Melendez did have a great run in Japan, but only fought there 5 or 6 times, he actually fought in the US more. Ishida did beat him, but that was a great effort put forth by Gilbert, you can't deny that.



Kid and Kang, no problem admitting they had struggles in Japan first, as did Gomi. Kang especially, he's honestly struggled everywhere at some point. He has all the potential in the world, but he has never been able to really rise above, he always makes a mistake at the worst time. 



Kid had struggles right before he came to the UFC, but before that, you can NOT deny that he was a full-blown superstar, everybody and their mama, including me, thought he was #1. His Hero's run was full of vicious, high-profile knockout's. I know he struggled right before, but I'm just saying, he was at one point the very best and couldn't really do anything against Demetrius. One thing I will say is that had Kid came over at 155 in his prime (2003-2006), provided the title had still been around for the majority of that time, he would have probably wrecked everyone. 



Uno posted wins over Menjivar, Clementi, Tokoro, and hung in for awhile with JZ, Kid, and Joachim, I'd call that a pretty solid run in K-1. You're right though, 0-2-1, not 0-3-1.



I really didn't mean to cherry pick, I don't think of guys like Anderson when I think of JMMA beasts. One thing however, and you know this, you take those big 4 and compare their success to the success of the plethora of other JMMA stars, you'll notice a huge drop after those 4 are considered. 

 

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Wasa-B - Santiago def a bust though. Just saying he wasnt unbeatable even against lesser comp.



And agree that though Omi should have beat Elkins, it should not have been that close.



Gomi not only was not in his prime before coming over he looked like SHIT before coming over.
He was never unbeatable, but he sure seemed to be at one point. I followed him as closesly as I could because I was so impressed when he tapped Horn, and damn, he was stunning.



Omigawa should have beat Elkins, I believe even Dana said it, but right, he should have been able to run through Elkins.



No problem admitting Gomi looked like shit before jumping over, he did, just saying that he looked like shit in the UFC as well.

 

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On the subject of the Hioki debut, I actually ended up picking him before the show just to spite my buddy who is on Roop's nuts for some reason. I still didn't give Hioki much of a chance however. Either way, Hioki won fair and square. Was he impressive? No. Was Roop impressive? No. A close showing from both fighters, Hioki obviously needs to work on his head movement and takedowns, but he did really well in the 2nd round.

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Im not really going thru the whole Pride vs UFC thing, i dont think we need to or really disagree that much. I will throw in the same old thing that none of the top UFC contemporaries of the top Pride guys are really on top today either.

But fighter for fighter on the "Pride" guys.

Yes, Anderson wasnt just a JMMA guy but did make his name there. Andy is Andy.

Shogun is one of my favs but who can deny he's had some a bad string of circumstances but has risen above it pretty dam well. Isnt he also ranked #2 after Jones still?

Hendo has been everywhere and been up and down everywhere.

Gil is really turning it on. But his biggest fights were in Japan aside from the Thomson double and Aoki so not sure what it says that a guy who had some significant career development in Japan beating Aoki in SF/US really. They could have just as well fought in Japan.

Kang is really talented but really inconsistent. No doubt his fiance passing didnt make things worse.

I think JZ hasnt been the same since surgery just as his teammate Alves hasnt been.

Santiago i think could still beat some UFC guys but seems his style will fall flat against some too.

Yes, Omigawa should have been able to beat Elkins up. He should not have left it that close.

I think Kid would have been hard for anyone under 145 to beat back then. I think he was too small for 155 against guys like Gomi and BJ, etc. Of course he was a super star and would fit the UFC perfectly with his wrestling, big hitting and cocky swagger but i think its safe to say his peak and the time the UFC opened up the lower weights did not match up.

Unlike Gomi, i think there is a chance that Kid could make some tweeks in his game to be maybe top 5 at BW. He looked terribly one dimensional and predictable against MM but MM didnt really do anything gainst him much either. Kid got back up from every td iirc. But i doubt he will.

Uno did ok in Heroes but still lost what 5 times during his return to Japan and also should have lost that draw to Kawajiri iirc. That's just ok. He was beating Hansen though and should have won that.

"One thing however, and you know this, you take those big 4 and compare their success to the success of the plethora of other JMMA stars, you'll notice a huge drop after those 4 are considered."

Agree and disagree. Nog did ok. Fedor beat his UFC contemporaries. CC busted big time. Rog is ok. Akiyama bust. Aoki still remains to be seen, to a lesser extent Kawajiri, just cuz they lost to the #2 LW doesnt mean they suck. And the same guys from the JMMA stars' era in the UFC have fair about the same. Most of the JMMA stars have been losing to next generation guys just as the their UFC contemporaries had.

Thiago Alves is a perfect example. He was looking like a beast, only lost to GSP in a respectable loss then had surgery and then had to fight Fitch in his first fight back, hasnt looked like a beast again.

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Dennis Schurg - On the subject of the Hioki debut, I actually ended up picking him before the show just to spite my buddy who is on Roop's nuts for some reason. I still didn't give Hioki much of a chance however. Either way, Hioki won fair and square. Was he impressive? No. Was Roop impressive? No. A close showing from both fighters, Hioki obviously needs to work on his head movement and takedowns, but he did really well in the 2nd round.


Agreed. I still thought he should win but wasnt betting my life on it. Roop is pretty underated imo but still only middle fare. If Hioki is to prove to be top class, that sure was not the bout.

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 After Hioki's performance against Roop, it makes me wonder if Hioki can beat Hominick again, but this time in the UFC. 

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For the record, he beat Hominick twice.

Style make fights. Perhaps fighting a guy just as tall as him for the first time (?) esp in his UFC debut was a bit off putting, who knows.

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He got blown off his feet more than once by a kickboxer. Chad Mendes would run through him like Mexican tap water. Phone Post

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I can agree with you on that Wasa-B. You can say Wanderlei, Mirko, and Fedor are really faded today, but so are Chuck, Tito, and Randy.



Additionally, anything can happen to anyone. I mean, take for example two former UFC HW champions in Arlovski and Sylvia, both were utterly shut down by Fedor inside of 1 round. Then you take a look at Hendo, yes a double PRIDE champion, but one who failed at both the MW & LHW UFC championships back to back as well as the SF MW championship, and he starched Fedor inside of 1 round. Ricco lost his UFC HW title fight to Tim only to arguably beat the former PRIDE HW champ in Nog.



I can also argue the other way around as well, Chuck was getting beasted by Reem and lost to Rampage in PRIDE, Bustamante vacated the UFC MW belt and left for PRIDE only to go 0-3 before finally picking up a win there. Hendo won UFC 17 and the KOKT '99 only to lose his first fight in PRIDE. Anderson went 3-2 in PRIDE but 14-0 in the UFC, and so on.

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good points, dennis. refreshing balanced perspective.