Bruce Lee was an absolute champion. You should see "The Lost Interview" (DVD) where he talks about the direction he wants Martial Arts to go in.
But I can tell you right now, I'm not a JKD fighter. I'm too pansy to fight
yellaboy,
ditto, my friend, ditto. great analogy, one thats used more and more commonly since it makes to much sense.
-former JKD Instructor
LOL...yellaboy, a "fanatic" of anything, I am not. I don't know how my topic of JKD transmutated into a topic of religion and crap like that, but mayhaps its you that need to go back and read again. I don't follow anything blindly, I just know what worked very well for me. I also got on here saying that most JKD schools have become crappafied, and I'll just add for shiess and giggles that Benny Hinn is nice to watch on your way to hell.
Dude, nothing has been warped in my mind, I'm pretty sure that it was JKD that taught me to use the lead leg stop kick, SO well, in fact, that I put Spratt on the matt when I used it, as well as the too classic to be real reverse "Wing Chun-esque" stomp kick on even seasoned vets like Anthony Macias and Drew Fickett. I had to stop using it because, while i never used it illegally, after I kicked Spratt with it back in 2000, I thought that it could cause undue damage to my opponents. I won't get into the fact that everytime, not once, but EVERYTIME I used my JKD fanatics straight lead, I've never missed while in any fight, and it was just so comical. I was able to do things with and use JKD techs that most teachers PRETEND to know. And I don't know what kind of JKD teacher you were, Christian, but too bad you didn't study it long enough to become proficient for you. Because I got a little secret for you both, Yves Edwards, yeah, he'll tell you that he uses JKD if you talk to him in person, so does Ron Balicki and Eric Paulson, Paulson being one of the more famous of the 2.
So mi mijas, I have no idea how good of a fighter Bruce was, I don't care. I don't know what JKD does for others, I don't care. And I don't know whether or not Jesus can fight at all, I don't care. I only know 2 things: One: todays top MMA fighters train in a very "JKD-ish" fashion to the point that most of the top guys (Tito, Vitor, and even that anus Guy Mezger) will give direct thanks to JKD for inspiring them.
The other thing I know is that you(ole Yella) should not try to look so smart , because it just makes you sound like a guy who's TRYING to look smart. LOL!! But hey, when this self taught JKD man with almost 50 fights under his belt, currently holding 3 WORLD titles in 2 different fighting events, never been KO'ed, never been TKO'ed or even beaten up after having fought heavy hitters like Spratt, Yves Edwards, Laverne Clark, Jason Black, Drew, Macias, suddenly starts getting tooled in the cage because JKD sucks so bad, then I'll be sure to run to you two for guidance, and then I'll start the church of Christan/Yallaboy of Really Latter Day Saints society, and we'll all wear gi's and pray to the Ancient Greeks, makers of the first condoms..LOL!!! Oh, man, am I tired!
Spidey "The Zealot"...LOL!!!
ttt=troll bait
"never has it been documented that any of the early warriors were capable of fighting in all 4 ranges of combat, never."
Spidey, just cut it out. It's obvious from that quote that you have no idea what you're talking about and just trolling. If you knew anything about history, you'd know that's not true. Just like you wouldn't be following any religion, like me. Now philosophy, that's a different story.
"Because I got a little secret for you both, Yves Edwards, yeah, he'll tell you that he uses JKD if you talk to him in person, so does Ron Balicki and Eric Paulson, Paulson being one of the more famous of the 2"
i've spoken to Paulson about that and while he says that certain principles (mostly 5 ways of attack) in JKD come in handy ... he credits what he does in the ring to his Shooto training more than anything else. as for Yves Edwards, his stand up skills are awesome. he could do ballet to his opp and it would still be effective. to me it looks like a good muay thai guy with excellent counter-wrestling and clinch skills ... with the latter not really a staple of what the typical JKD (jun fan/kali) school teaches for that range.
I took a few JKD classes and it was fun, but it didn't feel right trying to incorporate that stuff into my MMA competitive sport training. From BJJ and muiy-thai class into half circle blocks and back fist strikes didn't feel like a natural transition to me. Unless you practice that stuff a lot, it's not very practical for an MMA fighter. The last time I saw JKD stuff in the UFC was in the 90's. I'd rather work on my clinch or takedowns. I'll take a takedown into a ground and pound anytime rather than work on a beautiful spinning backfist counter that would amaze people on the street. I'm a fan of Bruce Lee, but not a fanatic, so I'm not as intrigued by JKD. I can say that I tried it though, rather than just give a negative opinion on here. "MOST" people who study JKD worship Bruce Lee, am I not correct? If you have an interest in it, great, more power to you. But I just couldn't see fighters today saying, man I need to brush up on my JKD for my next fight.
"In fact Bruce even admitted some regret in ever calling his art JKD and said that he would have preferred it was nameless."
- In the final quote of 'The Tao of JKD,' he says that something to the sort that JKD is just a name, please dont fuss over it and elsewhere also tries to put the point across that with the JKD mentality, each fighter can and still will be different which I think holds true with today's MMA fighters: have backgrounds and strengths in different areas but they are still all cross trained fighters.
I think what Spidey, meant to say is that the mentality of philosophy of JKD is what has been happening in MMA.
I dont think we need to claim Bruce was the first promoter of cross training since he never claimed to be himself.
He also never meant, as yella stated, "JKD" to be an official style:
"Each (TMA) had its own forms, movements, and so on and each practitioner went into battle believing that he had all the answers, and for that reason Bruce refused to call JKD a 'style.'" - (p.64 - The Bruce Lee Story)
Also the analogy to religion may be true because what everyone/followers interprets out of religion/jkd/etc may not necessarily be what the original philospher meant.
But, imo, I do think what is happening in MMA reflects the APPROACH, MENTALITY, and PHILOSPHY of what Bruce Lee himself meant in what he called JKD.
Just because certain people on the internet make proclamations on Bruce's/JKD's behalf shouldnt discredit what and how Bruce envisioned in his own approach to the combat/martial arts.
I think we should give him credit for it. As strong today as BJJ's influence is in MMA, Royce and co. still came out and stated that "BJJ is the best...,"
They did not advocate cross training and in less than half a decade of modern, international MMA, it was evident that is where the evolution was headed.
So from this evolution of what we have seen with our own eyes from this recent MMA history, I think it is simply safe to say that Bruce Lee did not invent or was not the original advocate of MMA cross training but his philosphy was very similar to it.
King Silly, if you can give me an example of ancient Greeks fighting in said ranges, please do so, but don't try to abase my opinion on it till you do so. And philosophy, you, thats a real good subject to go to college for. Most philosophy graduates spend a very fruitful existance in their parents basement or garages contemplating on their lack of money, dates, and and inability to stop playing with Lord Of The Rings cards.
Christian, you didn't really say anything that I did. Paulson will always give credit to JKD. See, I think most folks think of JKD as that Bruce on TV crap, or some mystical crap that they put in magazines (which I addressed earlier). Each JKD man has his own expression of said technique. You claim to have once taught it, but did you just forget the part where Bruce said a persons JKD may look like boxing, wrestling, or whatever to fit the situation? Guess so, cause thats how it is. Edwards doesn't get in the cage and start up with Chi Sao, asking hand engagements...that stuff is crap. he has his own system, and expression of what he learned in JKD. It's gonna look like whatever he shows at that moment.
As far as most JKD guys liking Bruce, yeah, thats too true, but I and a lot of others I've met don't really care for Bruce that much. I never claimed to be his fan, but I will say that he presented a hell of a concept and was a great spokesman for martial arts in general.Otherwise, I couldn't even say that he himself was all that great of a fighter, simply because back in his day, there just wasn't a lot of martial artists that were any good floating around for him to test himself. Gene LeBell kicked his ass in sparring, and even Chuck Norris put some knots on his head in sparring, so who knows?
Spidey...Oh, my real name is Cedric Marks...but you can call me El Hombre Arania Magnifico...LOL
Um, yella, I don't remember saying Ken was a JKD man, but I know when I lived next to him in Chula Vista, and used to go to his apartment, he had a stack of material high as mini-me about Bruce. But, I doubt that he would claim JKD as his fighting source.
And Wasa, I mostly agree. Bruce didn't want the name JKD to be a label stuck on everything. Only reason I'm using that, is because it's the most recognizable in relationship to the concept that I've been ranting about on here.
Spidey
"Name ONE BJJ, Muay Thai, or any other martial school that you could sign up for, and in that ONE class learn how to effectively fight in all 4 ranges of combat."
It's already been established the "4 ranges" theory is flawed. If you've read Renzo Gracie's book(Renzo's base style is BJJ, he'll refer to himself as an MMA'er now) he more correctly defines "3 phases" of combat.
The 3 phases being 1) Free movement phase 2) Standing Clinch 3) Ground fighting. The phases are divided based on degree of body contact and control the 2 fighters have versus each other. If you've truly fought or sparred you'd realize the same.
So if you go to Renzo's school, you won't learn about 4 ranges, because distance is a flawed way to classify hand-2-hand combat. Does being in grappling range mean i can't punch you? If you can only kick in kicking range, what does it mean if I nail a double leg initiated from kicking range? If I'm close enough to punch you, I'm close enough to grab you too. Does that mean I grappled or trapped you from punching range?
Also there is much debate on who propogated that Bruce named 4 ranges(kicking, punching, trapping, grappling). Original students claim he advocated 3 ranges: long, medium and close.
So in some ways the other "styles" have eclipsed JKD theories.
Yella, you're about as sharp as a marble, ya know that? Only YOU would say that Ken+Paulson=JKD...where'd you get that logic from, cause it sure wasn't from me. And ken has several instructors and training partners, and I personally know that he doesn't go around claiming their styles as his. And your "logic" about black KKK, still jacked...you should have paid more attention in history or something, cause there were a crap load of blacks that sold out from fear and worked for the klan back in the day, not to mention the shit load of Cherokee native Americans that were in the klan themselves. I say again, you try to look so smart, you're looking like a numbskull.
And Dilla, what does Renzo's idea on "phases" have to do with the "ranges"? And do you know the meaning of the term 'range'? It doesn't mean that if you're on the ground, you can't punch (why am I even explaining this) it means that on the ground, GROUND fighting will occur, and whatevers appropriate to use in that 'range' needs to be used. Just cause I'm in the punching range does not mean that I can only throw a punch if I can get in a low line stomp kick or maybe even a knee, it means that punches are most commonly shot at that range. JKD teaches flowing from one range, to the next, and back again if necessary. A range in JKD gives us an idea of what "usually" happens at that point, and what can be possible with practise. A phase has to do with a whole different subject, like what phase I go through when I'm about to fight.
And I think my green name and record speaks for itself in reference to your little jib "If you've truly fought or sparred you'd realize the same". I'm never one to put down a person without a pro color, cause it means nothing to me, but I would be willing to bet my next 10 fight checks that I've probably had more fights in the cage, ring, street, and jail than you've watched on your DVD sitting back at home, saying crap that you'd NEVER say to the face of a real fighter if you met them(and no, thats not a threat). I'm no kung-fu master, but I've paid my dues homie, in and out of MMA.
Spidey
"The Gracies can't be given such credit because all along they claimed that BJJ was the be all get all of martial arts. They NEVER talked about crosstraining till some of their top boys started getting smashed. "
Funny how Carlson was using Muay Thai style low kicks in photos from the 50´s. But he probably just got inspired by some chinese childactor named Bruce?
Imi Lichtenfield probably also used JKD as an inspiration for Krav Maga. The fact that he competed on internatiuonal level in both boxing and wrestling had nothing to do with it...