Why doesn't Ken sub more??

In his prime, Shamrock was great at submissions, especially ankle and knee locks. I don't remember when was the last time he's tried a sub. Last night that knee was sweet but when Kimo's back and neck were exposed and McCarthy still hadn't stopped the fight, I was screaming for Ken to jump on his back and take him out, instead he throws a right that just grazes Kimo's ear. Was Kimo's kneebar 8 years ago the last time Ken got a sub on somebody? Did he totally forget about subs as soon as he joined the WWF?

Seems like the Brian Johnston fight was when Ken's game went from sub to just brawler. He had a lot of chances to go for a sub in that fight and instead he breaks his hand pounding on the top of Johnston's head. Could someone show him a tape of the early UFCs or Pancrase and remind him of how he used to win his fights?

He tried unsuccessfully to submit Frye. He had a tight heelhook on Frye, but Frye worked his way out.

"I don't remember when was the last time he's tried a sub"

he tried a front chock on Fujita, he keylocked Atkins, and he tried the leglocks on Frye

Yeah, I forgot about the leglock with Frye. That shit looked like it hurt too. Sorry, I don't remember the Fujita or Atkins fights. My bad.

Kimo was on queer street. The punches that followed would have been just as good if not better than a choke.

Yeah the right that Ken followed the knee with grazed his ear, but the left after that smacked Kimo right in the face.

That fight was over. Punches or choke.

LOL @ YourFather.


Shamrock put the hurt on Kimo. It was very entertaining to watch. Shaq-diesel couldnt believe what he just saw.

Smashing KOs are more exciting to watch, and everybody gives you the props you deserve. If you win with a REAL sub, where the foe SCREAMS for you to stop (Ken vs Leon Dijk) or gets an arm or leg broken (Mir vs Sylvia) everybody rags about bad sportsmanship.

Ken screwed up Fryes lefs pretty good.

Frye ended up with a fractured shin after that fight & I beleive some knee damage too.

Contrary to popular belief, subs aren't a major part of his game in MMA. In Pancrase, yes, but not in MMA.

I have to agree. I like Shamrock. I used to think he was a submission wizard back in the day. Now that I know the game, his subs are average, and his guard is probably below average compared to UFC-Pride level fighters. I actually think his strikes and toughness are more of his strengh than subs. Still I respect him a lot, even more so after his post fight interview.

my guess is he doesnt want to lose position and get stuck beneath punches

I have allways said that Shamrock isn't particularly good at any one thing. He's got lots of ring time and is decent at strikes, ok at subs, but not a wiz at either.

I talked to Don after that fight in LA and he said shamrock is the real deal with leglocks. He said that Ken fractured both his ankles and tore a lig. in his right knee.
Don just would not tap. He said he should have but just could not do it and live with himself. TTT for Ken.

a lot of guys on this forum were arguing with me
that Shamrock has better subs than Mir a couple of
months ago....

evolutionjoseph is correct. I would say Shamrock has better leg submissions than Mir, hes been at it for about 12 years now. Overall, his guard is barely average, much below average in the Tito fight. But dont be surprised when the old timer "pulls a rabbit out the hat".