Son of Neckbone - Barnett is great because he is a threat everywhere, offensive and defensive wrestling, BJJ, and kickboxing, has excellent cardio and killer instinct. If Barnett is anything more than 2:1 underdog vs Fedor, bet the bank.
" pretty mediocre sub game actually."
Guess that's why he came closer than anyone ever to subbing Nog, and did arguably outgrapple Nog, and even had Nog wanting no part of the ground with him in the second fight.
orcus - " pretty mediocre sub game actually."I asked Nog about the kneebah in their first fight, when I went to one of his seminars. He said that it was really tight and made a "pop", until Josh tried to adjust and it loosened.
Guess that's why he came closer than anyone ever to subbing Nog, and did arguably outgrapple Nog, and even had Nog wanting no part of the ground with him in the second fight.
I agree Barnett's fight with Yvel was a little baffling, but Fedor spent 20 minutes on top of Schilt without finishing him at all (Josh submitted Schilt both times he fought him). More recently, Barnett submitted Hunt FAR more easily than Fedor did (as did Mousasi and Overeem, by the way -- all three guys submitted Hunt in under two minutes, while Fedor got reversed and spent five minutes with Hunt on top of him, in side control, working a kimura).
Calling Barnett's submissions "mediocre" based on a single performance where he finished his opponent is dumb.
Orcus. You're actually proving my point. Mousasi, Overeem, and Yoshida finished Hunt just as easily. So what was so exceptional about Josh's submission of him? And again, I mean mediocre in the sense of skills in all weight classes. Barnett's submission game is good for a HW.
Rusreddevil made a good point that I'll concede to. The problem for Josh is that Fedor isn't very conservative in his attacks at all. That's why he's so dangerous. Fedor's whole game is aggression and counterattacks. He said so himself in his book. So a conservative HW (which is most of them)who waits is going to be waiting a long time while taking damage.
In fact Take out the Semmy Schilt and Aleksander sub wins, and you really don't have much HW subs on Josh's record at all. He's subbed plenty of natural 185'ers (Kondo/Nakamura/Yoshida/Takahashi/Nastula), but against true HW's Josh really doesn't show much. Part of that may be because he doesn't give up position to chase subs, but holding down Fedor will be hard as hell.....
Awesome submissions and super smart been in th e game a long time
Josh Barnett is a stud, anyone who thinks otherwise is retarded. This is going to be Fedor's greatest challenge IMO.
Barnett could easily be the UFC HW Champ.
He's better than average at submissions. Remember, he had Big Nog in a fully locked knee bar in Pride that had Nog yelling in pain. The only thing that saved Nog was the bell.
eljamaiquino - In fact Take out the Semmy Schilt and Aleksander sub wins, and you really don't have much HW subs on Josh's record at all. He's subbed plenty of natural 185'ers (Kondo/Nakamura/Yoshida/Takahashi/Nastula), but against true HW's Josh really doesn't show much. Part of that may be because he doesn't give up position to chase subs, but holding down Fedor will be hard as hell.....I don't know why you would mitigate armbarring Schilt twice and subbing Aleksander, but even still... Beyond that he subbed Severn (Yes, past his prime, but he started his career past his prime and still long enough ago that it had some sort of relevance), Hunt, and John Marsh. Plus, Nastula is over 6ft and 235lbs, that's a stretch for a "natural 185-er". He has 15 submissions out of 24 pro wins. I guess it takes a lot to impress you...
TheClutch -eljamaiquino - In fact Take out the Semmy Schilt and Aleksander sub wins, and you really don't have much HW subs on Josh's record at all. He's subbed plenty of natural 185'ers (Kondo/Nakamura/Yoshida/Takahashi/Nastula), but against true HW's Josh really doesn't show much. Part of that may be because he doesn't give up position to chase subs, but holding down Fedor will be hard as hell.....I don't know why you would mitigate armbarring Schilt twice and subbing Aleksander, but even still... Beyond that he subbed Severn (Yes, past his prime, but he started his career past his prime and still long enough ago that it had some sort of relevance), Hunt, and John Marsh. Plus, Nastula is over 6ft and 235lbs, that's a stretch for a "natural 185-er". He has 15 submissions out of 24 pro wins. I guess it takes a lot to impress you...
Not saying he's going to beat Fedor. Just not sure why anyone would question Barnett's status as an elite heavy. He's a handful for anyone, including Fedor.
Fedor is getting sloppy. I think his newfound religion is giving him a sense of invincibility, like God has ordained him to be the best so that he may spread the good word and all that, which I think is leading to his training being below par. If God wants me to win then my victory is predestined and maybe I don't have to work as hard?
Anyone who watched that Arlovski fight had Arlovski winning until the blind haymaker put him down. If the same Fedor shows up at the Barnett fight then he will lose. Barnett is too tactically sound and experienced to make a big mistake like that, and he's dangerous enough to find a way to win.
"Orcus. You're actually proving my point. Mousasi, Overeem, and Yoshida finished Hunt just as easily. So what was so exceptional about Josh's submission of him?"
Nothing is exceptional about Josh's subbing Hunt. What is exceptional is his outgrappling of Nogueira.
If Josh's sub of Hunt is unexceptional, then what was Fedor's struggling with Hunt? If Josh is mediocre on the ground, then what does that make Fedor? -- Josh submitted Schilt twice; Fedor did not finish him; Josh came closer to finishing Nogueira than Fedor did; Josh submitted Hunt much more easily than Fedor did.
So I'm not sure how you look at Josh's submissions as a minus going into this fight.
He outstruck Aleksander clearly. Destroyed his body for a good ten minutes, Aleks was barely standing at the end of the round. Went toe to toe with Nog when Nog was at his peak.
Unquestionably a top 3 heavyweight when he's on his game, just doesn't seem to take fights against weaker competition seriously enough.
is barnett a good top level HW?
yes..considering the not so technically sound competition. nevertheless, he is a top 10 considered top 5 out of most HW.
does he have a chance of beating fedor?
Hell no. the only reason this fight is happening is because fedor has no other competition. fedor dominates barnett in all aspects of mma. if you believe otherwise, you are either swinging on his nuts to fast for your own good, or you're probably just his friend/training partner. please come back to reality, lol.
"the only reason this fight is happening is because fedor has no other competition."
Yeah, it's a real stretch when you have the #1 guy fight the #2 guy. They're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
Josh is a better fighter and has a better record than anyone Fedor has fought since Crocop four years and eight fights ago. He is, at worst, the third-best fighter Fedor will ever have fought, and personally I'd say he is second only to Nog.
Wovito -No.wayfarer - cause he beat the shit out of randy couture for one reason
Randy would beat that ass now, and we all know it.
josh could be a ufc champion today. easy.
super chin - josh could be a ufc champion today. easy.
huge athletic guys with tons of experience, skills, and good cardio are rare in MMA.