Sambo seems to be a nice hybrid. Add chokes and we're there?
bonez05 - Sambo seems to be a nice hybrid. Add chokes and we're there?Exactly what I was thinking. But don't penalise guard as stalling
iVaporize - If you train at an academy that trains more self defense and is not concerned with competition then BJJ and Judo is already combined. My school for example has a self defense day once a week (BJJ vs non BJJ technique) and most classes involve at least one technique from stand up. Schools could always do more rolling starting from standup as opposed to from knees but i think that is mainly so you can focus on ground techniques and train with less risk for injury. Also Judo is a sport and has this in mind. I don't think the ideal BJJ is BJJ+Judo but to train somewhere self defense oriented.
I agree with this somewhat. In BJJ my first instructor mixed in slow motion strikes and blocks and then regular "sport" BJJ. My next instructor was more of a sport BJJ black belt and there were no slow motion strikes. My 3rd BJJ instructor was a wrestler so he added more wrestling and cardio into the mix. My Judo instructor was if I remember correctly a 7th degree black belt and he showed me a lot of moves that don't exist in BJJ, on the ground and on the feet. The Judo instructor I had doesn't teach for tournaments. He teaches moves including gouges, groin strikes, breaking or controlling fingers and things like that, he basically mixed in some TMA stuff with Judo, but they are easy moves. If you think about it, you throw someone or can't throw them but you have a finger or two grabbed (try to break it or you can't) and maybe elbow them or kick them in the balls, it's hard arguing the logic.
To me a perfect system would combine all of the things above and probably at a faster pace. The Judo instructor is over 70 and definitely has a lot to teach and has a lot of what I'd call "forgotten knowledge" or unused techniques that can probably be used every once in a while.
Judo has a lot of moves that BJJ doesn't have on the ground and standing and BJJ has some moves that Judo doesn't use or has better alternatives for the Judo moves.
To me they're the same shit more or less with different names for the moves and with different importance placed on each move and positioning.
quality -iVaporize - If you train at an academy that trains more self defense and is not concerned with competition then BJJ and Judo is already combined. My school for example has a self defense day once a week (BJJ vs non BJJ technique) and most classes involve at least one technique from stand up. Schools could always do more rolling starting from standup as opposed to from knees but i think that is mainly so you can focus on ground techniques and train with less risk for injury. Also Judo is a sport and has this in mind. I don't think the ideal BJJ is BJJ+Judo but to train somewhere self defense oriented.
I agree with this somewhat. In BJJ my first instructor mixed in slow motion strikes and blocks and then regular "sport" BJJ. My next instructor was more of a sport BJJ black belt and there were no slow motion strikes. My 3rd BJJ instructor was a wrestler so he added more wrestling and cardio into the mix. My Judo instructor was if I remember correctly a 7th degree black belt and he showed me a lot of moves that don't exist in BJJ, on the ground and on the feet. The Judo instructor I had doesn't teach for tournaments. He teaches moves including gouges, groin strikes, breaking or controlling fingers and things like that, he basically mixed in some TMA stuff with Judo, but they are easy moves. If you think about it, you throw someone or can't throw them but you have a finger or two grabbed (try to break it or you can't) and maybe elbow them or kick them in the balls, it's hard arguing the logic.
To me a perfect system would combine all of the things above and probably at a faster pace. The Judo instructor is over 70 and definitely has a lot to teach and has a lot of what I'd call "forgotten knowledge" or unused techniques that can probably be used every once in a while.
Judo has a lot of moves that BJJ doesn't have on the ground and standing and BJJ has some moves that Judo doesn't use or has better alternatives for the Judo moves.
To me they're the same shit more or less with different names for the moves and with different importance placed on each move and positioning.
Could you elaborate on the moves on the ground that Judo has but BJJ does not? Curious
Apart from small joint manipulation and more throws, there are chokes, arm and shoulder lock setups I've never seen in BJJ. They also seem to setup a lot of moves differently than in BJJ. Different hand grips for some moves. Thinking about it a little better the moves are basically the same you can only twist a limb so many different ways, it was more to do with the setup and approach. An example is a failed throw might turn into a standing arm lock, probably not the best example.
I think the ground game in BJJ is superior in basically every way, the setups and variations were just something cool to learn and add to the arsenal. They also taught no leg locks or any takedowns that weren't throws or trips.
^ thanks
^ Thanks. Way better wording than me.
Slap, nice summary. Some from me:
On the groud, BJJ can benefit from Judo on:
- transitions from standing to ground, esp on failed / partial throws.
- chokes: Judo teaches chokes in more detail than BJJ, more variants (recal: Ezekial came from Judo also).
- turtle position and attacks from there (e.g. arm bars, chokes), and especially roll overs.
- gripping.
- pins & explosion
Judo can benefit from BJJ ground work on:
- smoother transitions between moves & chaining attacks.
- guard passes: this is something IMO every Judo player should investigate in BJJ.
- guard attacks: triangles, armbars, etc.
- guard control: not getting your guard passed. In general, guard better developed in BJJ.
^ sweeps/turnover I would say to. The amount from the Guard in Bjj is incrediable.
Judo guys have a certain immovable object quality which I suspect comes from years of defending throws.
there isn't a need to combine the 2 sports. It would be unnecessary as BJJ is basically Judo with less rules. Combining the 2 and merging rulesets would basically be taking BJJ and adding in more specific rules.
For the best judo in BJJ, just watch Rodolfo Vieira, Xande, and Jacare. Many guys have strong (or better) judo backgrounds than these guys but the examples I gave have basically merged BJJ and Judo better than any other athletes in the World.