Shogun...?!?
IMO no. I'll post the facts here shortly, but is that the general consensus around here?
Are they fighting for the #2 spot in the world?!
Lets look at their wins since 2005...
SHOGUN (9 wins 1 loss)
Win Alistair Overeem KO (Punches) PRIDE 33 - Second Coming 2/24/2007 1 3:37
Win Kazuhiro Nakamura Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE - Shockwave 2006 12/31/2006 3 5:00
Win Kevin Randleman Submission (Kneebar) PRIDE 32 - The Real Deal 10/21/2006 1 2:35
Win Cyrille Diabate TKO (Stomps) PRIDE - Final Conflict Absolute 9/10/2006 1 5:29
Loss Mark Coleman TKO (Broken Arm) PRIDE 31 - Dreamers 2/26/2006 1 0:49
Win Ricardo Arona KO (Strikes) PRIDE - Final Conflict 2005 8/28/2005 1 2:54
Win Alistair Overeem TKO (Strikes) PRIDE - Final Conflict 2005 8/28/2005 1 6:42
Win Antonio Rogerio Nogueira Decision (Unaminous) PRIDE - Critical Countdown 2005 6/26/2005 3 5:00
Win Quinton Jackson KO (Strikes) PRIDE - Total Elimination 2005 4/23/2005 1 4:47
Hiromitsu Kanehara
I don't know. A lot of people will wail and scream about it, but if Shogun beats forrest it won't matter bc he's fighting the winner nearly 100% chance. So while people will get worked up about it, we'll see him FIGHT to work it out soon enough.
Rampage...(6 wins 1 loss)
Win Chuck Liddell TKO (Punches) UFC 71 - Liddell vs. Jackson 5/26/2007 1 1:53
Win Marvin Eastman KO (Punches) UFC 67 - All or Nothing 2/3/2007 2 3:49
Win Matt Lindland Decision (Split) WFA - King of the Streets 7/22/2006 3 5:00
Win Dong Sik Yoon Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE 31 - Dreamers 2/26/2006 3 5:00
Win Hirotaka Yokoi TKO (Punches and Stomps) PRIDE 30 - Fully Loaded 10/23/2005 1 4:05
Loss Mauricio Rua KO (Strikes) PRIDE - Total Elimination 2005 4/23/2005 1 4:47
Win Murilo Rua Decision (Split) PRIDE 29 - Fists Of Fire 2/20/2005 3 5:00
Hollywood Henderson (6 wins 2 losses)
Win Wanderlei Silva KO (Punches) PRIDE 33 - Second Coming 2/24/2007 3 2:08
Win Vitor Belfort Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE 32 - The Real Deal 10/21/2006 3 5:00
Loss Kazuo Misaki Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE - Bushido 12 8/26/2006 2 5:00
Win Kazuo Misaki Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE - Bushido 10 4/2/2006 2 5:00
Win Murilo Bustamante Decision (Split) PRIDE - Shockwave 2005 12/31/2005 2 5:00
Win Akihiro Gono KO (Punch) PRIDE - Bushido 9 9/25/2005 1 7:58
Win Ryo Chonan KO (Punch) PRIDE - Bushido 9 9/25/2005 1 0:22
Loss Antonio Rogerio Nogueira Submission (Armbar) PRIDE - Total Elimination 2005 4/23/2005 1 8:05
I'm really trying not to be biased here but I don't see how either could be ranked higher...even tho one of them will get another W...against a top 5 fighter.
"Will winner of Dan/Page surpass... Shogun...?!?"
- No.
"Are they fighting for the #2 spot in the world?!"
- Yes.
Unless Shogun goes on to lose to Forrest.
As you listed, their records at 205 speak for themselves.
Since '05, against top-ten competition at 205, Hendo was submitted by Rogerio and KO-ed Wanderlei.
Rampage was destroyed by Shogun and KO-ed Chuck.
Shogun destroyed Rampage, beat Rogerio, Alistair, Arona, and Nakamura. And hasn't lost at 205 since winning the '05 GP.
Anyone disagree??
Yes, i think it is very arguable that the winner of this fight is arguably the #1 LHW.
The winner would have just beaten 2 top 5 guys in a row, how many fighters in any weight have done that recently? The last would have been Gomi over Mach and Kawajiri. The last top 5 guy Shogun beat was Arona and im no Arona fan but he clearly TKOed himself that fight ala Lindland/Vitale and the Rog win was very close.
But then again, Dan just lost to Misaki and Shogun beat Rampage though that was 2 years ago and Silva owns 2 wins over Rampage as well
Im not saying Shogun doesnt have a stake for #1, im just saying he def isnt the undispuated #1 in my books.
throwing forrest to the dogs much by giving him this fight?
The winner of this fight would have to be #1.
Two consecutive victories over legit top 5 comp in their weight class, and holding two straps.
Shogun is the real deal, and I am not taking ANYTHING away from him. He just hasn't proved his mettle yet in a championship fight. (for a belt, not a GP)
We'll know soon enough if he gets by Forrest. He'll be next in line for a title shot.
"The winner would have just beaten 2 top 5 guys in a row, how many fighters in any weight have done that recently?"
- Actually, Sokoudjou just this year as well.
But in the past 2 years, Shogun's beaten five 205-ers who were top-ten at the time (Rampage, Li'l Nog, Alistair, Arona, and Nakamura).
The winner of Rampage-Hendo will have two. But yes, they will have come consecutively - and actually it will not just be two top-ten wins, but two top-THREE wins in a row.
But the last time either of them had faced a top-ten 205-er before this year, he lost decisively (Hendo to Li'l Nog, Rampage to Shogun).
Meanwhile, Shogun hasn't lost at 205 since owning the tournament in which both Rampage and Hendo were entered (where he also owned Rampage).
^^^^ valid points
"He just hasn't proved his mettle yet in a championship fight. (for a belt, not a GP)"
- The GP Championship was the de facto Pride Championship, since the actual Pride Champion himself was in it - and lost to Arona, who was then stopped by Shogun.
That established Shogun as Pride's #1 205-er.
The only reason he didn't get to "prove his mettle yet in a championship fight" is because his teammate still officially held on to the title.
You can't penalize him for that.
After winning the 205 GP, the de facto Pride 205 Champion was Shogun, not Wanderlei. Shogun was ranked #1 at the time, ahead of Wanderlei.
"Im not saying Shogun doesnt have a stake for #1, im just saying he def isnt the undispuated #1 in my books."
He beat the undisputed #1. He has not lost a LHW since. That makes him #1.
There is nobody else who even has a case for #1 (unless Forrest wins).
You conveniently left out Arona and Rogerio Nogueira...2 of his biggest wins IMHO.
2 + years right?!?
"Nakamura is his only semi-legit "defense" in 2+ years."
Um He beat Arona right at about 2 years...
Wandy was #1. Arona beat him becoming number #1. Shogun then beat Arona to become #1.
How does anyone not understand that?