Sprinting and a decathlon is not a horrible analogy. Sprinters are amazing at sprinting. Decathletes have a wider range of skills but have no chance of outsprinting a dedicated sprinter.
Checkers and chess are completely different, unrelated games. Bad analogy. Boxing and MMA are related, one is just far more specialized than the other.
Not really a suprise.
Ya guys know that wrestling at one point was bigger in this country than boxing? That same wrestling turned into a circus act and is still a circus act.
Things change. I hope boxing isn't on it's way out...personally I love boxing. Comparing boxing to MMA is like comparing any other fighting sport to MMA...you can't compare the technical aspects, simply because they aren't the same.
Watch the Peter Aerts V Mo Smith fight... he fought the way he did against somebody with takedown skills in MMA the fight would be very, very short
Same thing with Tyson V Holyfield, or any of Wladimir's recent fights. To compare one to the other in terms of striking skill is just fucking goofy... you don't do half the shit the same.
Freestyle wrestlers standing up the way most MMA fighters do with their hands up, planting their feet would get slaughtered in a wrestling match if they wrestled that way...you could easily look at that and say these guys all have next to zero grappling skill...look at they way they are standing!
Problem is it ain't wrestling is it?...or boxing for that matter.
A boxing fan who's never been involved with MMA doesn't have a clue what good MMA is.
It's not my intention to flame a dude, but his opinion is in fact, completely and utterly ignorant and worthless...
What is he talking about Chuck not being athletic...What about James Toney. He is one fat cunt!!
Foreman was tip-top when he won the belt as well...
"But what about all the boxing/MMA fans on here? Are they stupid too?"
I'm one of them...so I hope not all of them are.
(Sigh) this thread has regressed to the 7th grade level. If you were to put two people, one with a boxing background and one with an MMA background both at equal levels within their sport,into a street fight without gloves, cages or rules who is most likely to be the winner? And please dont throw in silly factors like hitting in the nuts, or using a weapon or friends jumping in.
What's my point? If you want to compare two completely different sports, then this is the only way to whip it out and see whose is the biggest. Just like in 7th grade "my Dad can beat up your Dad."
"Yes Pat's analogy was arrogant."
Maybe, but Pat has spent more rounds in front of good boxers in the gym than you have. He has crosstrained manically and with good pros. I seriously doubt he meant it as a slight the way you take it. I hazard to guess he means one game requires preparation for more moves and contigencies, not that one is better or worse.
I also can understand why you get tired of MMA jockers, but keep in mind alot of them dont even train BJJ, much less ever set foot in a boxing gym. And yes I realize people dont have to train/compete to have an opinion, they just need to to have an educated one.
"James Toney is a very good athlete actually. Fat wasn't my point. LOL.
Chuck isn't a bad athlete just not a top tier one. He's not even at Mark Coleman level or a BJ Penn or GSP."
Gotta agree with you bsrizpac. But you have to admit that even if James Toney went on a diet, his ass will still be obese!!
Chuck isn't anywhere near as athletic as GSP. Chuck gets by with his punching power but he's just been fighting grapplers. The only way to get chuck to abandon his counter-attacking mentality is to fucking take it to him. Only a striker will beat chuck, No wrestler or Jui Jistu practicioner will beat Chuck Liddell.
For his fatness, he still moves around with some flair...gotta agree.
He just can't leave his training camp in Burger King, that's his problem. At 168lbs he was good, I'll give him that!
Randelman looks like a fuking wind-up toy when he comes charging at the beginning of the fight.
Randleman is strong...I'll give him that but for athleticsm I'd go with GSP or Mauricio Rua.
Randelman doesn't have any hormones according to his urine test!! Lol...
, "i dont exactly consider COLEMAN and LINDLAND great athletes..COLEMAN is very strong but not agile or real explosive"
I guess that shows what you know about olympic caliber athletes I guess. Did you ever watch Coleman in the early UFC's? The dude was shooting from 6-7 feet away, if you dont realize what sort of explosion that takes, please leave, train in some of the sports that the sports figures you rail about excel in, and then report back.
Well the dude is like 43 and had several serious injuries. High end freestyle wrestling isnt exactly conducive to a long athletic career.
Look I guess it comes down to what sport you like best. To me MMA is interesting and exciting. Boxing is BORING and puts me to sleep on the couch like an afternoon baseball game on the TV. Thats just my opinion, your entitled to yours. But I don't feel like I need to go on a boxing forum and spew my opinion to a hostile environment. Whats the point really? Oh trolling I guess. WTF?! Who gives a shit?
I know, just making conversation, rather than saying Boxing rules! Tarver would leave 4 inch deep gashes in mo fos faces. Or Boxers should step up, and lets see who the real "fighters" are. Or Blah blah isnt an "athlete" cause he can break a 4.5 40 and only has a 34 inch verticle.
I think alot of times with regards to combat sports people get a little too caught up in "athletic" ability. The NFL has sort of trained people as to what that is supposed to mean. I dont for a second question NFL guys are the best raw athletes. but that does not and will not translate into success boxing or MMA. Both take a huge investment of technical training, boxing takes a huge confidence building investment (thats what a big amatuer background brings a person, a very solid skill set to fall upon when the heat is turned as high as it goes) heart and a certain amount of mental toughness that just is not required to play football.
Even the more athletic boxer like Mosely get embarrassed badly in those athletic competitions that used to run in the summer. From the 800 meter run to every thing else he got smoked. hell Joe Frazier could barely do 3 pull-ups, yet he had an indominable will and a left hook that could dent bricks.
I get VERY tired of these bullshit arguments that over half the people invested in them know what they are talking about. I think Rastus and bsrizpac try to be objective, and 5 years back were more so. Now its hard to get weiners to listen when they have mebbe 6 months of training time to their names and its VERY easy to get frustrated with em.
BSRIZPAC must be having a laugh over how he's stirring up MMA fan's emotions and getting them angry.
but Im laughing over here too at how ANYONE can ACTUALLY believe the kind of sh*t that he's speaking
Listen, Roy Jones Jr and Mike Tyson are phenomenal athletes IN BOXING.
But that's a one trick pony, sir.
I make this comparison to MARK McGWIRE. Put aside the steroid issues and just think of what he looked like and what he accomplished. He hit a TON of homeruns, and looked like a bodybuilder. I'll say this bluntly, but most STUPID people would think he's a premier athlete...and compared to the average man, he IS! But as far as a professional sports athlete, he isn't/wasn't. He could do 1 thing really well, but that's it. Compare him to other guys that can do MULTIPLE things.
Listen, you are stroking boxers about how great of athletes they are, but as I said, it's 1 discipline. They are 1-trick ponies.
SO you can throw your hands with giant pillows attached to the end, and you can dodge those giant pillows. You're a top athlete.
But if you can attack with punches, kicks, elbows, wrestling takedowns, and submission grappling and defend those same disciplines, you are a BETTER ATHLETE.
"SO you can throw your hands with giant pillows attached to the end, and you can dodge those giant pillows. You're a top athlete."
spoken like a man who has never been hit with a 10 oz gloved fist taped like a brick underneath. Please report to the nearest boxing gym for a reality check.
I admit, I have sparred with big gloves, maybe 16 oz. and I've sparred with Grappling gloves 4oz.
A punch is gonna hurt if it's thrown the right way, but you can exercise a bit of reckless abandon with bigger gloves than with smaller gloves. There's more cushion on the blows.
What about the rest of my points?
Of all the stuff I typed, he replies "YOU YOU YOU need to go get punched"
what a joker
"Actually I was on this forum near when it started. Nice try though :)."
You must not have completely read my statement, or didn't understand it. I never said you joined this forum recently or only to come on here and say these things. What I DID say was that I have an opinion on boxing and MMA but didn't feel the need to post it on a boxing forum? And again, please answer my question. What is the point of posting this thread other than trolling? You posted this knowing you had one opinion and the majority of people here would oppose that. Nothing will be solved, no ones mind will be swayed, no information you or other posters can offer will effectively put this debate to rest. So again, what is the point?
I'm out, this trolling is ghey!
"I admit, I have sparred with big gloves, maybe 16 oz. and I've sparred with Grappling gloves 4oz."
I am not saying you are right or wrong about your rant on boxing. I am saying to call the gloves guys fight with "pillows" is wrong. You sparred with 4 oz gloves? good for you, I have 9 MMA fights and fought with them. Cuts and protecting the hand are the biggest difference in Boxing and MMA glove arrangement.
And sparring with your buddies is not going to give you your reality check. Go to the nearest decent boxing gym, glove up and see how those pillows feel when some guy who doesnt know you or ever care if you come back hits you with em.
IF i had an issue with any other points you made I would have stated so, or are you not too smart?