What is this tripe about making the state titles qualifiers for a national championship? (See; AFBJJ VIC titles thread)
I agree that BJJ is growing (and that it is a good thing) but BJJ is not at the population level where we can actually afford to exclude people from tournaments on the basis that they did not "qualify". A classic example of this was the purple/brown belt division in the Vics. Most of the guys in that division (all of them bar two), were from Will/Machado. These guys could have trained at an open mat for nothing (no $50- fee anyway) and had the same matches. On top of this there were only two weight divisions! (Sarcasm on) Yup, I reckon that those numbers are grounds for qualifying events to be held. (Sarcasm off)
To put it bluntly, this is another attempt to make the BJJ public (and the general public for that matter) believe that the AFBJJ is the "be all and end all" in Jiu Jitsu in Australia. First there was this pile of excrementitious lies that the Pan Pacs were a "qualifier" for the Mundials, and now this.
It is beginning to become apparent that the AFBJJ has overestimated its place in the small community of Jiu Jitsu in Australia.
Exclusion of people from any part of Jiu Jitsu (even the points based pyjama crappling part) for such a petty reason as "qualifying", or as I like to call it "self promotion of the AFBJJ" will lead to the crippling of an art where numbers are vital to its existence, forget not that Jiu Jitsu is an art for the people and as such should be accessible to all people.
Add to this the fact that it costs money to enter these tournaments, and the fact that if you want to have a shot at a bigger tournament then you have to "qualify", which really means "pay for another tournament". All this adds up to yet another form of exclusion, if this is the AFBJJ's idea to increase interest and increase numbers at tournaments/BJJ then maybe they should rethink thier strategy?
AFBJJ mad with power? Yes! However, the power is ultimately with us the practitioners. Once this is realized the river of bullshit will cease to flow.
David Krstic.
'river of bullshit will cease to flow'... you certainly have a way with words
Dave actually raises a fair question: where the hell were all the AFBJJ Purple Belts at the Vic State Titles?
It seemed like there was only half a dozen Purple+ belts at the competition. Looking at PDB's club website he lists 28 Purple Belts and 2 Brown Belts (not to mention the 50+ Blues). What were they all doing?
Where were the "Beeners" at the Australian Open?
Where were the "Xtremeties" at the Vic Titles?
Ladies first..
My tin foil hat stops the AFBJJ from reading my thoughts.
there simply isn't enough people competing at the moment to warrant a qualifying set-up.
"there simply isn't enough people competing at the moment to warrant a qualifying set-up. "
I disagree. Over recent years 200+ competitors per day have been seen at the likes of the Vic Titles and Pan-Pacs.
Exclusive competitions aren't anything new in Australian BJJ, take for example, the M-Nats. One of the key differences in this regard is that membership of the AFBJJ (and therefore participation in its competitions) is not exclusive - my understanding is that it is open to all, regardless of existing affiliation.
The qualifiers for the Nation competition are held in each State/Territory - what's that, like 8 different competitions each year. Would be National competitors are able to compete in as many or as few as they desire and afford. Nobody is required to compete. Ever. For those that do and/or are able, good luck to them.
As for Dave's comments re number of rounds/competitors and (as he eluded to) the value for money, I totally agree: $50+ for one or two fights, against your regular training partners does stink.
Wow Dave! What incredible insight you have!
The Australian Federation of Brasilian Jiu Jitsu wants to control and direct the movements of brasilian jiu jitsu in Australia! My god you're right; the cunning bastards...how can they be so two faced and deceitful?
For 10 years we've had consistant tournaments open to any clubs that join the federation and have allowed them to compete in a environment that mirrors comps in the sport's homeland, unlike the alternative:
"Yeah you can wear wrestling boots in our geniune brasilian jiu jitsu comp - no worries"
The federation has provided:
Consistent rules
Consistent competition dates
Consistent tournament growth
Consistent message of Australia's commitment to the art
And now with NSW and QLD being such a source of talent things are only getting better nationally for Jiu Jitsu.
People who's opinions count have shown their support for the AFBJJ and have given the deserved kudos and respect to Peter de Been for going through tough times to get it where it is today.
Dave, you remind me a lot of commercial radio;
You're loud, entertaining and popular with the general oxygen bandits that make up society - but you've really got nothing to say that's worth listening to.
"For 10 years we've had consistant tournaments open to any clubs that join the federation " - Why the f*** should anyone have to join the federation just to compete?
I've brought this up before and still no one has told me of any benefit that one gets as a result of joining his federation, apart from the option to compete in his tournaments.
It's laughable enough that you get the right to say that you teach "authentic brazilian jiu-jitsu" even when he wouldn't even have seen anyone do anything! You pay the money, then you can say "look at me, i have this certificate of authenticity!" .....
Also, as Dave has mentioned before, he is a member of this federation, and not once has he been invited to attend an Annual General Meeting, or anything similar. Plus, I thought that a "president" had to be "elected". Any takers for people who want to nominate for the position at the next AGM?
"Where were the "Xtremeties" at the Vic Titles? "
Dutch: We would love to compete at the Vic titles, and at the Pan Pacs, but we're not members of his federation, and therefore cannot. To compete at the Australian Open, anyone can pay the entry fee and compete.
Just my $0.02
Rodney
What if a person was injured for the qualifiers? I was injured for the Victorians.
Also someone may move up a belt rank in the half a year between the Vics and the pan pacs.
two good points lach
Weren't the original (they may still be?), South Pacific Submission Grappling Championships run as a qualified event.
That is, you had to place 1st or 2nd in a State Qualifier to be eligible for the final competition and subsequently eligible to win a place on the ADCC Team from the South Pacific.
Did the concept work?
Discuss?
Regards
Gerald.
ps. I think qualifying tournaments are a good idea in theory, and do (as wookey points out) give a notion of credibility to competitors in the final event. Many considerations that would have to managed effectively to make it work (as lach says). Much easier said than done, for mine.
First of all I have posted similar thoughts before and Rodney was insightful enough to mention those points again. I havn't seen a ballot or newsletter or anything (hell that might cost me extra, better not mention it).
Wookie, what have wrestling boots got to do with anything, tool? Authenticity is dependant on where you stand, and simply put, you are standing in the same place the rest of us are! So spare me this shit about being more authentic and more brazilian and closer to "the source", because that dog won't hunt.
You can insult me Wookie that is fine, but if you don't like my cooking stay the fuck out of my kitchen you meatheaded shitsack, brazilian wannabe, AFBJJ nutrider.
As far as progession is concerned, inclusion not exclusion is the way forward. Fuck prestige, you want prestige then buy a fucking Mercedes, if you want Jiu Jitsu then train, if you want to compete then you should be able to without having to "qualify" (remember that is AFBJJ code for if you wanna play you have to pay), pay ridiculous fees (I am talking federation memberships) and all the other unjustifiable costs that seem to be foisted on the BJJ practitioners (is it outside the realms of possibility to hold the events in a cheaper place and help the grass roots BJJ guys out?).
Face it people! I have beaten the correct down, kicked its brothers arse, slapped the maddest hatefuck on its punk bitch sister and unloaded on its tard parents with both barrels. Those that disagree can A) Suck my dick and like it, and B) Go back to riding the nuts of the AFBJJ!
Power to the people!
David Krstic
big dave for president (but we'll have to vote for him democratically).
It's about time this discussion appeared again... it's got to be at least 3 months since we last went down this road.
"Where were the "Xtremeties" at the Vic Titles? " Dutch: We would love to compete at the Vic titles, and at the Pan Pacs, but we're not members of his federation, and therefore cannot. To compete at the Australian Open, anyone can pay the entry fee and compete.
I cannot see the distinction between the Vics/Pan Pacs and the Australian Open: anyone can pay the fee (call it what you will) and compete. Despite fiscal pressures what's stopping you?
Take the players from my club (Ground Zero): we've compete in AFBJJ events (pay competition and federation fees), the Australian Open (pay the full fee as opposed to a discounted fee for some players) and NSW Circuit events (again competition and 'membership' fees). Not everyone can afford every competition, so people pick and choose.
Are you actively discouraged by your club not to compete in every competition available?
As to AGMs, elections etc - different corporate structures have different rules governing them... I for one don't give a toss as to who is in charge etc of the AFBJJ as long as it meets my needs. I'm not looking for anything more than an avenue for competition, so AFBJJ is meeting my needs fine.
Interesting points Lach:
"What if a person was injured for the qualifiers? I was injured for the Victorians. Also someone may move up a belt rank in the half a year between the Vics and the pan pacs."
I took the time to talk to PDB at the last comp to ask him about similar operational issues. He commented (non-officially I imagine) that players are able to compete in any of the State qualifiers to get a place in the Nationals. E.g., even if you were injured during the Vic championships you'd be welcome to make your way to another State competition to compete for a National place. As for Belts, well it doesn't take much imagination to guess that you'd only be able to compete in the division(s) in which you've placed - if you go up a rank then you'd be ineligble for the higher grade 'cause others had already qualified.
Did any of Peter de Been's students (possibly training in Sydney) compete in last year's Sydney Grappling Challenge?
I think I read somewhere (perhaps on a thread on this forum last year) that in last year's Sydney Grappling Challenge there were represenatives from all major BJJ clubs in Australia (SPMA/Will Machado, Extreme, Roots, Brunno Panno, Gracie Barra Sydney as well as Peter de Been JJ). Can anyone confirm this?
Also, if this is true, does that mean that BJJ politics is mainly a Melbourne problem?
Dave Krstic - I can't believe this, again your scaring the shit out of me because I agree with the comments you've made in this thread.
Rodney - "Why the f*** should anyone have to join the federation just to compete?", very well said.
Is BJJ politics a Melbourne problem? Only to those who wish it to be, and as far as I am concerned any organisation that wants to follow the exclusion based elitist path to prestige and popularity is every Jiu Jitsu guys problem!
"It works for Judo"... Hello, this is Jiu Jitsu not fucking Judo.
"As long as it meets my needs"... meeting your needs by making you pay club affiliation, tournament fees (which includes an extra payment for every susequent division you wish to enter) and personal affiliation if you want to compete. Sounds like a similar set up to the church, it is funny how the dollars keeps you within the grace and favour of the lord dosn't it? Pay your way to the promised land and all will be well.
Don't believe the hype! Fight the power! You have all been fooled into thinking that this is the way it has to be. Nothing is absolute, nothing is cast in stone! Ask the questions and find the truth!
David Krstic.