If I'm a fighter, why would I want to get tangled up in Danas web, when I can go to Affliction and get paid like fighters SHOULD get paid????
Since Affliction is losing tons of money, I would say the truth is just the opposite. They are being overpaid, not given what they are really worth.
Yup. Affliction is paying fighters what they are worth.
We the fans need to support their efforts in making these great cards and signing top talent.
If their PPV numbers suck, some of the failure is on US the fans for not supporting what we say we want.
super popular fighters are doing right by staying with affliction, and bleed them dry, and then move to long term employment with UFC.
At a rate that bankrupts the company.
Actually, with a cut of the ppv, the UFC is paying fighters what they are worth.
Mad Xyientist - Yup. Affliction is paying fighters what they are worth.
We the fans need to support their efforts in making these great cards and signing top talent.
If their PPV numbers suck, some of the failure is on US the fans for not supporting what we say we want.
i disagree, the blame is on the company for not understanding their market and/or not promoting properly. i am speaking in generalities, you cant say "it's the consumers fault"
that's silly
EliteXC, IFL, Bodog paid fighters what they're worth too
Vasechkin - super popular fighters are doing right by staying with affliction, and bleed them dry, and then move to long term employment with UFC.That's most likely how it will go down.
I hope they can manage somehow to keep going though. There's some outstanding fighters and fights on this card and they made a matchup that people have wanted to see for quite awhile now. They keep the UFC in check somewhat aswell. I doubt 94 would be as stacked if not for Affliction.
"We the fans need to support their efforts in making these great cards and signing top talent"
Very well put.
I couldn't agree more.
i want fighters to get a fair share,affliction is over paying from the #'s that are reported.the ufc on the other hand.
Mad Xyientist - Yup. Affliction is paying fighters what they are worth.
We the fans need to support their efforts in making these great cards and signing top talent.
If their PPV numbers suck, some of the failure is on US the fans for not supporting what we say we want.
They are paying them what they are worth? Based on what... gate receipts or PPV sales?
I will support their efforts by ordering their PPV but just ROFLMAO @ blaming the fans for low PPV buys when they are a new promotion... one that most MMA fans have never heard of.
They could have gotten most of the fighters on their roster for a lot less money because the market and the industry doesn't command such high numbers. They really didn't drive up the value of the athletes because if they fold, who is going to step in and repeat the same mistake? No one. The pay will be chopped and the fighters will be forced to accept whats available.
Thank goodness ODL/GB and Trump are on the scene because were it not for them I seriously doubt we would ever see a third Affliction show. The problem has nothing to do with the fighters because they have some amazing talent. The problem is the inexperienced leadership.
Cindy
Mad Xyientist -
If their PPV numbers suck, some of the failure is on US the fans for not supporting what we say we want.
So you'd blame the target market on any failure as opposed to the business owners? Obviously the business owner is not putting out and marketing a product that the consumer wants at a price the consumer is willing to pay.
I have tremendous respect for the fighters and support their efforts for increased pay. However, it seems to me that if every organization that people tout as "paying fairly" inevitably goes under, that indicates to me those organizations are actually overpaying.
It's everyone's fault, but yes, there is some burden on the viewer base to support the things they ask for, namely, marquee matchups and top level MMA talent.
If Affliction doesn't get enough viewers, and Fedor, Barnett, and Arlovski don't fight again in 09, while half a million people tune into a PPV with Franklin vs. Henderson and a whole lot of crappy fights, its partially their own fault.
If you want the best fighters, buy the show. If you want any fighters, buy whatever show everyone watches, but don't complain when Fedor and Barnett aren't on it.
Mad Xyientist - It's everyone's fault, but yes, there is some burden on the viewer base to support the things they ask for, namely, marquee matchups and top level MMA talent.Yeah, but who asked for these fights? The common fan? The same common fan that has no clue who the fuck Barnett and Fedor are, let alone Pride. The people screaming for these fights were people like the ones that actually post on MMA sites like this. Unfortunately, UFC 94 is going to get >4x the amount of buys than Affliction for that very reason, but the guys fighting in UFC 94 are probably going to make less than their conterparts. Which is why this may be Affliction's last event.
Double Post
Mad Xyientist - It's everyone's fault, but yes, there is some burden on the viewer base to support the things they ask for, namely, marquee matchups and top level MMA talent.
If Affliction doesn't get enough viewers, and Fedor, Barnett, and Arlovski don't fight again in 09, while half a million people tune into a PPV with Franklin vs. Henderson and a whole lot of crappy fights, its partially their own fault.
If you want the best fighters, buy the show. If you want any fighters, buy whatever show everyone watches, but don't complain when Fedor and Barnett aren't on it.
IIRC, Turi and TJ shared that Elite was spending in the neighborhood of $100,000 for rent alone. There were many expenses listed in their filings that made no sense. There were too many big-wigs drawing a check and there were many retarded decisions made. They had the viewers, a TV deal, publicity and talent yet they went under. They overpaid their talent (some) which was not necessary because these same guys couldn't go anywhere else and make the same. By doing so, Shaw afforded himself the right to point it out in the media in an effort to make the UFC look cheap. Unfortuanately for them, DW and the brothers don't make business decisions based on public opinion. We saw how this story ended.
Affliction was created due in large part to Randy Couture. They would have NEVER spun a promotion off of their apparel line had it not been for him leading them to believe he was coming aboard. Mark Cuban was in the thick of it all, too, with HDNet Fights but was smart enough to get himself out of the picture after learning the case he filed on Randy's behalf was denied a change of venue to be heard to Texas like he wanted. He knew Randy would be old enough to draw social security before he'd be able to work with him and unless Mark had plans to hold a "Geezers at Caesars" card in 2010 there was no reason to continue down the same path.
The crap the t-shirt guys have tried to pull behind the scenes has backfired at an embarrassing rate. They have managed to continue digging themselves into a deeper hole because they are too dumb to put the shovel down. This is why I hope Trump Jr., Cohen and GB eventually (well, immediately, IMO) squeeze them out before they run what's left of the company into the ground by behaving like amateurs. If they fail, it will not be due to their fanbase because that implies they are advertising the hell out of their events, to no avail, and familiarizing mainstream viewers with their athletes. That's not the case... a glance through the previous threads on this board will confirm that.
Hardcore fans are going to tune in because this is the sport they love and many will watch just about anything MMA related. They essentially suck at promoting and their decision to publicly declare war against the UFC and pick a fight they cannot possibly win (matching them dollar for dollar until one of them goes under) was only rivaled by Todd's bout with diarrhea of the mouth on Ferrall's show when he wished death on Randy before his Lesnar fight, called Lorenzo a faggot and "guaranteed" Station Casinos would go under by February 1st.
The icing on the cake is that Todd has ZERO ownership in Affliction Entertainment so why on Earth was he even doing a radio show with Tom to promote the promotion??? STOOOOOOPID! His calls to Kim along with his radio show tyraid landed him in the embarrassing position of having to resign from Affliction altogether when the background check she initiated against him turned up domestic abuse charges, ripping off the elderly and that sweet little prison sentence. No one seemed to care that he had "paid his debt to society" and was a new man.
I know you and many others love to crucify DW for being the way he is and a lot of it is somewhat earned... but is it better for fighters to have a "mean boss who cusses a lot" or a degree of stability in living their dream to compete professionally in the most coveted MMA promotion on the planet??? Most of these guys don't even have to deal with DW and only see him during events they are slated for. The exposure alone is something you cannot get anywhere else even if you were willing to pay for it.
Sponsors trust the UFC name and are willing to pay big bucks for their fighters to pimp their brand during events and by virtue of having fought in the UFC or competed on TUF makes some of the lesser known athletes a bigger deal when they go to some of the smaller shows. The UFC brand can open doors that other brands do not/cannot because the ROI simply isn't there sometimes.
Fighting is their job and to be perfectly honest, I really don't care what any of them make as long as it is at least for the amount they signed the contract for, regardless of the promotion they compete in. They chose this occupation and it shouldn't be forgotten that these guys are living their dream. There's no replacement for a roaring crowd, adoring fans, photo ops, making the highlight reel, seeing their faces on an event poster, signing autographs, doing interviews, making money and being respected as a professional athlete.
There is simply far more value for a fighter than the monetary gains, regardless of the organization. If Affliction tanks it will not be because they didn't have talent because they do. It will not be due to anything the UFC does because Zuffa isn't the reason these guys don't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to promoting/advertising events and the lack of a plan B when a competitor flexes like the UFC has. It will be a direct result of the poor leadership (unless Trump and company are at the helm, IMO).
puts soapbox away
Cindy
God I can't believe people are still this stupid.
(unless Trump and company are at the helm)
Absolutely.
boy, i hate to admit it but cindy makes some very good points. I love that the Affliction guys are getting big money, but if they go under it's beacuse of the money they have wasted. Why pay Arlovski or Syliva 500k-700kk over what they were just making when you could have got them for 100k more? silly imo . i hope affliction pulls it off. but with the lask of advertisment for this event i doubt it will go far. PPV is what makes MMA thrive right now.