I'd rather one huge paycheck now, incase I get a career ending injury. Even if Affliction folds, UFC will still take you later if you'll accept their pay rate.
HtotheHizzo - boy, i hate to admit it but cindy makes some very good points. I love that the Affliction guys are getting big money, but if they go under it's beacuse of the money they have wasted. Why pay Arlovski or Syliva 500k-700kk over what they were just making when you could have got them for 100k more? silly imo . i hope affliction pulls it off. but with the lask of advertisment for this event i doubt it will go far. PPV is what makes MMA thrive right now.
How do you know you could have gotten them for a 100K more? Maybe both of them thought long and hard before risking being blackballed from the UFC by acting as headliners for a direct competitor. They obviously asked for and received something a fair way over market value in order to convince them to jump.
Well, I can tell you this:The top fighters that the UFC has right now under contract, it will be MUCH harder for them to resign them. Zuffa will no longer be able to "feed them peanuts" IMOI mean, remember what we are doing here....We are comparing Affliction 2 to UFC 95.....I say by Affliction 10, their fighters will be making "BOXING MONEY"........ ALL fighters out there SHOULD want to be on board!!!!
Sorry Cindy, that comment wasn't about making this about "UFC vs. Affliction" as this always seems to boil down to. My point was, if there are half a million MMA fans out there, they need to show up for cards like this and chip in. Is there blame on Affliction for not raising the audience? Of course. But raising an audience out of the air is not easy. My point, and it was admittedly an unpopular one, is that there is some burden on us fans for not supporting what we ask for.
Its so acceptable to criticize MMA fans when they do something overtly stupid like boo during an event, or act like a drunk douche in front of the camera, but when I criticize them for more broadbased stupidity, people can't seem to fathom that it can possibly be their fault. It's not being smart enough to find out for themselves who the best heavyweights in the world are, and when they're fighting each other. And ultimately paying to see those fights. The information is out there, but MMA fans have been slow on the uptake. Can Affliction help them realize that? Yes. Can they force them to realize that? No. At some point the fanbase has to take some minimum initiative to learn when the bouts occur and how to see them.
I'm disappointed that MMA fans (and to some degree the mass media) aren't smart enough to find out about Affliction and buy the show in mass numbers. And while I'm sure Zuffa celebrates that as a victory (which it is, at least in the short term), perhaps it should raise just a little concern, because if fans aren't interested enough to learn more about the sport and who the best fighters are, they may not be interested in continuing to shell out 50 bucks every month once the trend has faded and there's something else new and cool.
Excessively big pay days are good for the fighters in the short term but bad for the sport in the long run.
Fedor is not a draw. He's lucky that the promoters are no less the fanboys than what you would find on this site. Otherwise, he wouldn't even have a job.
This happens all the time in business, the big guys that have less risk associated with working there pay their employees less...the start ups often over pay good talent to make up for the volatility that comes with working for a company that may not be here next week.
This is particular true when their is a fad or a boom (like the dot com boom years ago, where everyone who knew html was being paid 50% above their market rate.)
I say by Affliction 10, their fighters will be making "BOXING MONEY"
I'll be watching legally this Saturday but I highly doubt there will be an Affliction 10
skooter, are you a business owner or have any qualifications that give you the knowledge as to what fighters should be paid? I think you'd have to know the fighters cut [including paid expenses] versus the total gate numbers and other expenses to determine fighter compensation. An mma business may go under but not because of fighter salaries but other expenses [arena rental, ppv costs] where costs outweigh income.
yea fans on here should support and buy it...but can't blame mainstream fans for not supporting it with GSP and Penn right around the corner. I'm sorry bu affliction does an awful job promoting, i barely even saw a PPV preview to order it, i've seen a ton of GSP vs. penn ads though.
CindyO -Mad Xyientist - It's everyone's fault, but yes, there is some burden on the viewer base to support the things they ask for, namely, marquee matchups and top level MMA talent.
If Affliction doesn't get enough viewers, and Fedor, Barnett, and Arlovski don't fight again in 09, while half a million people tune into a PPV with Franklin vs. Henderson and a whole lot of crappy fights, its partially their own fault.
If you want the best fighters, buy the show. If you want any fighters, buy whatever show everyone watches, but don't complain when Fedor and Barnett aren't on it.
IIRC, Turi and TJ shared that Elite was spending in the neighborhood of $100,000 for rent alone. There were many expenses listed in their filings that made no sense. There were too many big-wigs drawing a check and there were many retarded decisions made. They had the viewers, a TV deal, publicity and talent yet they went under. They overpaid their talent (some) which was not necessary because these same guys couldn't go anywhere else and make the same. By doing so, Shaw afforded himself the right to point it out in the media in an effort to make the UFC look cheap. Unfortuanately for them, DW and the brothers don't make business decisions based on public opinion. We saw how this story ended.
Affliction was created due in large part to Randy Couture. They would have NEVER spun a promotion off of their apparel line had it not been for him leading them to believe he was coming aboard. Mark Cuban was in the thick of it all, too, with HDNet Fights but was smart enough to get himself out of the picture after learning the case he filed on Randy's behalf was denied a change of venue to be heard to Texas like he wanted. He knew Randy would be old enough to draw social security before he'd be able to work with him and unless Mark had plans to hold a "Geezers at Caesars" card in 2010 there was no reason to continue down the same path.
The crap the t-shirt guys have tried to pull behind the scenes has backfired at an embarrassing rate. They have managed to continue digging themselves into a deeper hole because they are too dumb to put the shovel down. This is why I hope Trump Jr., Cohen and GB eventually (well, immediately, IMO) squeeze them out before they run what's left of the company into the ground by behaving like amateurs. If they fail, it will not be due to their fanbase because that implies they are advertising the hell out of their events, to no avail, and familiarizing mainstream viewers with their athletes. That's not the case... a glance through the previous threads on this board will confirm that.
Hardcore fans are going to tune in because this is the sport they love and many will watch just about anything MMA related. They essentially suck at promoting and their decision to publicly declare war against the UFC and pick a fight they cannot possibly win (matching them dollar for dollar until one of them goes under) was only rivaled by Todd's bout with diarrhea of the mouth on Ferrall's show when he wished death on Randy before his Lesnar fight, called Lorenzo a faggot and "guaranteed" Station Casinos would go under by February 1st.
The icing on the cake is that Todd has ZERO ownership in Affliction Entertainment so why on Earth was he even doing a radio show with Tom to promote the promotion??? STOOOOOOPID! His calls to Kim along with his radio show tyraid landed him in the embarrassing position of having to resign from Affliction altogether when the background check she initiated against him turned up domestic abuse charges, ripping off the elderly and that sweet little prison sentence. No one seemed to care that he had "paid his debt to society" and was a new man.
I know you and many others love to crucify DW for being the way he is and a lot of it is somewhat earned... but is it better for fighters to have a "mean boss who cusses a lot" or a degree of stability in living their dream to compete professionally in the most coveted MMA promotion on the planet??? Most of these guys don't even have to deal with DW and only see him during events they are slated for. The exposure alone is something you cannot get anywhere else even if you were willing to pay for it.
Sponsors trust the UFC name and are willing to pay big bucks for their fighters to pimp their brand during events and by virtue of having fought in the UFC or competed on TUF makes some of the lesser known athletes a bigger deal when they go to some of the smaller shows. The UFC brand can open doors that other brands do not/cannot because the ROI simply isn't there sometimes.
Fighting is their job and to be perfectly honest, I really don't care what any of them make as long as it is at least for the amount they signed the contract for, regardless of the promotion they compete in. They chose this occupation and it shouldn't be forgotten that these guys are living their dream. There's no replacement for a roaring crowd, adoring fans, photo ops, making the highlight reel, seeing their faces on an event poster, signing autographs, doing interviews, making money and being respected as a professional athlete.
There is simply far more value for a fighter than the monetary gains, regardless of the organization. If Affliction tanks it will not be because they didn't have talent because they do. It will not be due to anything the UFC does because Zuffa isn't the reason these guys don't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to promoting/advertising events and the lack of a plan B when a competitor flexes like the UFC has. It will be a direct result of the poor leadership (unless Trump and company are at the helm, IMO).
puts soapbox away
Cindy
This is the longest post I have ever read in its entirety. Cindy owns this thread.
Got a little long winded=)
Cindy
While Affliction is paying main event guys really well, what about the rest of the fighters? They only have PPV events, and not very often, so how do mid card guys fit in? What about the kid stepping up on short notice to fight Dan Lauzon? How much do you think he'll get?
And before you comment on how the UFC pays new guys 3k/3k...don't forget the 20k-60k bonuses they give out every show, and don't forget how the UFC is likely to use an up and coming prospect 3-4 times this year.
Marcus Davis and Chris Lytle consistently get bonus money, just about every time they fight...how do you think those two would be paid in affliction?
How much more do you think UFC fighters get in endorsements because of the promotional work the UFC does for them?
No sir jpm995....I am NOT a business owner.
But check this out....You don't have to have a Masters in Math to figure out that the PROFIT that Zuffa generates (minus) the fighters payout (equals) a holehellavalotta PROFIT for ZUFFA.
And check this......
They are fixing to have their 100th show!
That is .....1......0......0.....as in ONE HUNDRED!!!!
I say today, they COULD pay their fighters MORE MONEY!!!!!!
CindyO shut this thread down.
stevekt - Excessively big pay days are good for the fighters in the short term but bad for the sport in the long run.
I've concluded from this thread that Zuffa should cut salaries across the board, because they can, and because fighters have sponsorships.
Mad Xyientist - I've concluded from this thread that Zuffa should cut salaries across the board, because they can, and because fighters have sponsorships.
What I get from this thread is a feeling Affliction will be wishing they did the same=)
Cindy
I think what Affliction pays their non top four fighters will be an interesting subject.
And Cindy O raises the hugely significant point about the exposure UFC provides the fighters. Not just for sponsorship, but if the fighter flunks out, being a "UFC vet" basically guarantees main event fights in local promotions.
I think people grossly underappreciate how high the UFC's marketing costs are. in addition to only getting roughly 50% of the PPV revenue , the UFC does a monstrous amount of advertising. I was in Vegas last week and was bombarded by signs and promotional material. That stuff isn't cheap and adds up pretty quick.
TTT, so true ! support the greatest show!!!