in these threads we should always recognize 2 facts that vantagepoint just said.
under the current mma rules, steroids are not allowed. those are the rules of the game. we should look at steroids like eyegouging or headbutting. maybe you want them in the game, but under current rules they are cheating.
if you use steroids, but don't compete, nobody can say "you're cheating". there isn't some rulebook of life that says steroids are cheating. maybe you don't like roids, and they are illegal, but that is different from cheating.
theAdonis makes an excellent point that most roid users are healthier than the average american. but this is what i want to know: what kind of society is this, where the average person is overweight and gets no exercise, and the healthy people feel they need a needle in their ass to "better themselves"? neither one is desirable.
"i have been around tons of them and i have to say that the MAJORITY(80% at least) were all using at least 400 mgs of TEST per week, and a good chunk were using over 1000 mgs per week..."
Those numbers are based on your guesses. They have no relevance to my point, anyway.
Take any prescription drug out there. There will be people who take oxycontin in doses that are higher than a doctor would prescribe, or who shouldn't be taking it at all. Do you automatically say that oxy is evil and no one should take them? Of course not. There are legit uses for it.
IMO, a legit use for steroids is performance and appearance enhancement. Those uses are AT LEAST as justified as making old women horny or old men feel younger.
You can't read off a laundry list of health risks associated with steroids and put them on the same level as crack and heroin, and then turn around and say they are safe for some people to use. That's just stupid.
In a society that gives teenage girls fake titties and nose jobs, and where plastic surgery is deemed entertainment ("The Swan", etc.) steroids really shouldn't be this big a deal.
"By saying no to roids your setting a leveled playingfield you fight with what you were born with no more no less. "
But what about what I said. Some people will still have advantages, genetic, or $$. If someone is trying to get into MMA with no money, they cant even afford to train, or buy supplements, will they really be on a level playing field as someone who is rich, and can train with the best guys?
"By allowing steroids more people would probably be tempted to try new substances that arnt as safe and well made (like deca and nandro)"
But the same coule be argued for people who go out and try the newest supplement, because they want an advantage.
Think of it this way, how many medals do you think a poor country like kenya would win in the next olympic games if the US started up a drug program for all their athletes? Making designer roids for all its athletes? Roids shouldnt be a requirement for competing on equal terms in sports. "
During the cold war, didnt communist countries spend millions so their atheletes could get the best training, supplements, etc? While the atheletes here in the US still have to work their 9-5 jobs, while the people in the USSR, their only job is to train and workout.
"1. under the current mma rules, steroids are not allowed. those are the rules of the game. we should look at steroids like eyegouging or headbutting. maybe you want them in the game, but under current rules they are cheating. "
Ok, I agree that because the RULES say it is illegal then it is cheating. But I think that if the rules allowed roids, then I do not think it would be 'cheating'
So does this mean that anyone that smokes weed is a cheater? When Bobby Hoffman's win against Robinson was declared a no contest because he turned up dirty for weed, everybody hollered that it was BS, but guess what fellas, thems the rules. So if someone using roids is "cheating" then would that not make a pothead a cheater too? Based on the preceeding posts that seems to be the case.
"But what about what I said. Some people will still have advantages, genetic, or $$. If someone is trying to get into MMA with no money, they cant even afford to train, or buy supplements, will they really be on a level playing field as someone who is rich, and can train with the best guys?"
You will never be able to level the playing field since everyone will use it. Its just a matter of do we want all athletes to use it or do we want all atheltes not to use it. We cant issue special permits for some less gifted guys.
"During the cold war, didnt communist countries spend millions so their atheletes could get the best training, supplements, etc? While the atheletes here in the US still have to work their 9-5 jobs, while the people in the USSR, their only job is to train and workout."
You consider that fair? They have removed about 50-60 world records from that time because noone to this day were able to beat them. Its just not possible for a non user athlete to beat them. (mostly in swiming) That should say something about the awesome power of some of these substances.
"So does this mean that anyone that smokes weed is a cheater? When Bobby Hoffman's win against Robinson was declared a no contest because he turned up dirty for weed, everybody hollered that it was BS, but guess what fellas, thems the rules. So if someone using roids is "cheating" then would that not make a pothead a cheater too? Based on the preceeding posts that seems to be the case."
I agree that in things like Nascar or F1 or something were you can do serious damage to the crowd or other athletes it still should be used but not for sports like fighting. I have always stated in this thread that I wouldnt go into specific substances but I agree on this one. But to anwser, yes right now it is cheating!Should it be listed as a banned substance probably not!
maybe using steroids are illegal because they are performance enhancing, unlike weed that only causes hallucinations, impairs coordination, increases heart rate, delays reaction time, and impairs perception so weed can only harm someone in a fight.
Bryster hav'nt read much of the rest of this thread but if my comment sounded to corny I do apologize and if you find that patronizing well.... Do you take them yourself?
"Linkage why do you say randleman is not using? The consensus around here is that randleman is one big steroid. Same with coleman. I am not doubting your experience, I am just interested. And what are your thoughts about Fujita/juice?"
I didn't say that he isn't juicing, I certainly wouldn't bet money on that, but it's guys like him, idiot savante freakish athletic types, that don't need to. Meanwhile, the nerdy, unathletic types like Sakuraba will try to catch up with these guys' superior athleticism, because they've already got them beat in the brains dept..