Hood_Jitsu - Rani Yahya, Miguel Torres, Gabriel Gonzaga, Demian Maia, Shinya Aoki, Fabiano Wagner....
What? Laughable. None of them have even arguably been as great or as accomplished with their BJJ in MMA as Nog has been. (And certainly none of them had even emerged yet as top-level fighters already when Nog faced Fedor.)
Actually, of that list, the only already established, truly great fighters as of now are Torres and Aoki - who have successfully adapted their BJJ to MMA and have already beaten multiple top-10 fighters in MMA. No one else you listed has ever beaten, much less subbed, more than one so far.
Not even close to Nog.
Hood_Jitsu - The only real top ten fighter who Nog has submitted is Cro Cop, who has no ground game.
Sylvia was also consensus top-5 at the time, Herring was still top-10 the second time, and Coleman was actually the #1 HW in the world at that point - which is who Nog actually beat to then first become #1 himself.
And what "real top ten fighter[s]" have those other guys you listed ever submitted as well? (Especially when it comes to opponents who had a ground game.)
Only Aoki has actually submitted more than one "real top ten fighter" in his career by subbing Hansen and Alvarez.
Even Miguel Torres - who is the best "P4P" BJJ-based fighter right now - has only submitted one top-10 fighter ever in Chase Beebe.
And Damien Maia - who might be the best pure one-dimensional BJJ fighter in MMA right now - has only beaten one even arguable top-10 fighter ever in Chael Sonnen. (And Sonnen certainly "has no ground game" either, by your same standard.)
Hood_Jitsu - His BJJ isn't what made him great
What??? I'm gonna need you to clarify this because I truly can't believe what I'm reading here:
So are you saying that NOG'S "BJJ isn't what made him great"?
If so, then I don't think anyone should ever take you seriously (if they ever did in the first place).
Soup and Beer - lol, Silva asking that fight is like a little poodle barking at a Pit Bull behind the safety of his master. He knows damned well that fight can never happen which is why he asks for it.
anything can happen with only 4 fights on your contract.
Hood_Jitsu - Rani Yahya, Miguel Torres, Gabriel Gonzaga, Demian Maia, Shinya Aoki, Fabiano Wagner....
What? Laughable. None of them have even arguably been as great or as accomplished with their BJJ in MMA as Nog has been. (And certainly none of them had even emerged yet as top-level fighters already when Nog faced Fedor.)
Actually, of that list, the only already established, truly great fighters as of now are Torres and Aoki - who have successfully adapted their BJJ to MMA and have already beaten multiple top-10 fighters in MMA. No one else you listed has ever beaten, much less subbed, more than one so far.
Not even close to Nog.
Hood_Jitsu - The only real top ten fighter who Nog has submitted is Cro Cop, who has no ground game.
Sylvia was also consensus top-5 at the time, Herring was still top-10 the second time, and Coleman was actually the #1 HW in the world at that point - which is who Nog actually beat to then first become #1 himself.
And what "real top ten fighter[s]" have those other guys you listed ever submitted as well? (Especially when it comes to opponents who had a ground game.)
Only Aoki has actually submitted more than one "real top ten fighter" in his career by subbing Hansen and Alvarez.
Even Miguel Torres - who is the best "P4P" BJJ-based fighter right now - has only submitted one top-10 fighter ever in Chase Beebe.
And Damien Maia - who might be the best pure one-dimensional BJJ fighter in MMA right now - has only beaten one even arguable top-10 fighter ever in Chael Sonnen. (And Sonnen certainly "has no ground game" either, by your same standard.)
Hood_Jitsu - His BJJ isn't what made him great
What??? I'm gonna need you to clarify this because I truly can't believe what I'm reading here:
So are you saying that NOG'S "BJJ isn't what made him great"?
If so, then I don't think anyone should ever take you seriously (if they ever did in the first place).
Just because Nog wins fights doesn't mean he won them because of his Jiu Jitsu. Plenty of figthers have better BJJ than him but haven't accomplished as much because they don't have his chin/heart/cardio.
Heart/Chin is what seperated Nog from most fighters, not Godly BJJ skills. I thought this was a known fact to most MMA fans?
He's been beaten on the ground by Ricco, Fedor, and arguably Barnett.
Hood_Jitsu - Just because Nog wins fights doesn't mean he won them because of his Jiu Jitsu.
Nog has won all of his fights with his BJJ and technical boxing - but primarily with his BJJ. Or did his opponents just happen to accidentally fall into all of those submissions, at just the right angle?
Hood_Jitsu - Plenty of figthers have better BJJ than him but haven't accomplished as much because they don't have his chin/heart/cardio.
There have been far greater BJJ players who haven't been able to adapt their BJJ to MMA even remotely as well - to accomplish even a fraction as much - as Nog did. Who still showed toughness in taking beatdowns in MMA - but who still were not able to actually come back to ultimately win - like Nog has.
Yes, Nog had cardio and an all-time-great heart and chin (and how are those exactly minuses?), as well as technical boxing skills - but he also had the all-time-great MMA-adapted BJJ to be able to actually submit more meaningful opponents than anyone else has in the history of the sport. And he's certainly done more with his BJJ in MMA than Anderson has.
And btw, so you're basically admitting that - because of "chin/heart/cardio," in addition to his BJJ - Nog has in fact been the greatest and most accomplished BJJ fighter ever in actual MMA, right?
Because you couldn't actually come up with a greater and more accomplished BJJ-based fighter in MMA history. Figures - since there hasn't been one.
Oh yeah, and relating back to the subject of this thread - not only has Nog been without question the greatest BJJ-based fighter in MMA history - but he was a bigger and absolutely better groundfighter than Anderson.
And yet Nog still never even came close to submitting Fedor on the ground, while being thoroughly dominated in over 40 minutes of fighting, in his prime. (And who took an especially brutal beatdown on the ground in their first fight.)
I just want to add one thing: even if Anderson and Fedor entered the bout weighing close to the same amount, Fedor's career is built on defeating heavyweights. Anderson's is built on defeating men who fight at 185 (and, in the case of Mach, 170). We should expect Anderson's striking power to be less effective against heavyweights than it is against middleweights.
Fedor, Nogueira, and Anderson are all legends of MMA, no reason to try discrediting any of their accomplishments in order to prove a point.
IMO Anderson does have an advantage on the feet vs Fedor and that's where he would could beat him. Of course Fedor would pound him from the mount, but fights don't start and restart on the ground and Anderson doesn't want to go or stay there. Nog did.
IMO Fedor deserves to be the favorite but it's foolish to write off Anderson entirely
Don't forget that Anderson has been training with Nog for a very long time and has a BB under him. I'm sure that training with Nog is very good training for Fedor.
Not that I could say that Anderson could be victorious, but you have to consider this fact.
"We should expect Anderson's striking power to be less effective against heavyweights than it is against middleweights."
Manhoef's striking power seems just as effective against HWs as it is against 185ers...so was Mousasi's in his K-1 fight against Musashi...is there any logical reason to expect a guy like Fedor, who is basically a MW with a 40 inch waist, has some superior resistance to strikes compared to ripped 185ers cutting from 215-220?
"Silva needs to figure out how to finish Leites and Patrick Cote"
You said yourself Anderson was "not looking to finish" in those fights -- have you changed your mind and decided he was trying but was unable?
"lol at Nog not being one of the best BJJ guys MMA's had or his BJJ wasnt made him good."
Nog's my all-time favorite fighter and while he might be the best fighter with a submission base in MMA, I don't consider him to be the most dangerous with submissions by a long shot. More of his best wins have come as a result of his standup than his BJJ (Kharitonov, Werdum, Barnett). He did better against Fedor in the fight that stayed standing than in the one spent on the ground, and he lost to Barnett in their fight in which he used a grappling strategy -- then won the rematch where he avoided the ground like the plague.
"lmao, have him fight Timmy or even Arloski first."
Just because Fedor's style works against huge guys, and Anderson's might not, has nothing to do with how Anderson would do against Fedor, who is not a big guy.