Why aren't these seen in MMA?
BEEF & CHEESE - Why aren't these seen in MMA?
A lot of what we would call a passive elbow or knee destruction ARE seen in MMA. What I suspect you mean is "gunting". That's the hard one to pull off on a resisting opponent. I try to balance my "self preservation" with "self perfection"...
OneScoup - The only way I could see doing it against a boxer is if you were a far better boxer than you opponent. In that case you might as well go for better targets on your counters.
Though I make one exception, if a guy only leaves open arm targets cause he's too busy defending the more important ones, then go for it. For instance a if a guy fights in the Philly shell, it's pretty common in boxing to punch him in the lead arm until he raises it.
Bottom line is you can pull off just about any technique if the difference in skill level is big enough. But obviously you should spend the most time working on techniques that are likely to work against someone who is at least as skilled.
banco -OneScoup - The only way I could see doing it against a boxer is if you were a far better boxer than you opponent. In that case you might as well go for better targets on your counters.
Though I make one exception, if a guy only leaves open arm targets cause he's too busy defending the more important ones, then go for it. For instance a if a guy fights in the Philly shell, it's pretty common in boxing to punch him in the lead arm until he raises it.
Bottom line is you can pull off just about any technique if the difference in skill level is big enough. But obviously you should spend the most time working on techniques that are likely to work against someone who is at least as skilled.
I agree 100%.
BEEF & CHEESE - Why aren't these seen in MMA?
most would say because of the gloves and taped hands but to be honest i would like to see more elbow destructions, i still they could somewhat work.. i dont think it would finish the fight though...
i would also like to see more of a filipino style of knee destuctions instead of the thai style of shin to shin.
all in all the sport aspect is hard to pull destructions off. the fact that you can not kick to the balls and eye slap allow the fighters to get into clinch range to easy. and of course you can not headbutt and eye gouge once in clinch range.
mma is the closest sport for jkd... but jkd's targets and tactics are illegal.
i will say it again... anderson silva and machida are doing to the closest thing to jkd in a cage.
I had my foot broken by a destruction, . . . does that count? =)
Have pulled off knee destructions against Thai kicks several times in sparring.
Needless to say that gets old real quick with your sparring partners and if you want to keep them around you learn to cut the BS and play fair.
PoundforPound - Have pulled off knee destructions against Thai kicks several times in sparring.
Needless to say that gets old real quick with your sparring partners and if you want to keep them around you learn to cut the BS and play fair.
IMO, it's your partners' fault for not properly setting up the roundhouse kick.
Is this thread from 1993? Deja fucking vu...
No. In 1993 everybody just talked about destructions as if they worked no matter what:)
I tell my experience one day in a sparring of Boxing against an oponent better then me, he try to injured and punch me strong, i wait his punch in my face and quickly cover with my elbows and it works.
My english is not so well , thanks :)
Doing a "destruction" in sparring is a whole lot different than doing it in a full out fight. The easiest, as Luigipe said, is to let a fist run into your elbow. That isn't so difficult to time. But most other popular destructions are nearly impossible at 100% speed and threat level.
If you have been trying and don't find success, and you can't find anyone else that can do it at full speed, then move along.
Burton - Doing a "destruction" in sparring is a whole lot different than doing it in a full out fight. The easiest, as Luigipe said, is to let a fist run into your elbow. That isn't so difficult to time. But most other popular destructions are nearly impossible at 100% speed and threat level.
If you have been trying and don't find success, and you can't find anyone else that can do it at full speed, then move along.
I only use the elbow & knee destruction. I can't make "the noogie" (tricep nerve shot) work in sparring. I actually am spending more time on hitting right now and less on "playing around"... I feel as though my training is in a constant state of change!
"I actually am spending more time on hitting right now and less on "playing around"... I feel as though my training is in a constant state of change!"
Excellent!
Destructions are not "high probability" tools. I love destructions, but that's my romantic side.
My realistic side knows that you're not gonna pull them out of nowhere against a "full intentioned attacker". First of all you probably won't have the distance in a real assault. Things are gonna come fast and hard. You could pull them off all day in sparring because distance opens and closes, especially if you leave out clinch and ground.
I remember when destructions were enjoying the spotlight about 15-20 years ago. Everyone was wearing their five fingered bruce lee gloves and dancing around and "landing destructions".
Once everyone stopped "existing" in long range and saw there was a lot going on in clinch and ground destructions became lower probability.
Then as, reality dictates, an attacker may just ease up and ask the time and as you look at youre watch he nails you. Destructions start to fall far lower on the priority list.
They are not the worst things to see and know about. It's another thing to try to hone them to perfection and force their use.
ttt
Destructions were a part of old school puglism for centuries. They disappeared with the advent of Marquis of Queensbury boxing and the inclusion of larger boxing gloves.
As for why don't they appear in MMA, who cares.
Guerrero -PoundforPound - Have pulled off knee destructions against Thai kicks several times in sparring.
Needless to say that gets old real quick with your sparring partners and if you want to keep them around you learn to cut the BS and play fair.
IMO, it's your partners' fault for not properly setting up the roundhouse kick.
Or maybe someone who consistently injures their training partners with an uneccessary technique is a dick.
Like most elbow techniques, knee destructions are best trained as part of a drill or during very light sparring. You can't train them full-power without splitting open someone's shin, fucking up their knee, or breaking their foot.
It's extraordinarily unlikely that a destruction will work outside of drilling or sparring. Besides the fact that they're VERY low percentage, there are far better techniques to spend your time training.
(Man, I'm still amazed that the same small group of guys is here debating this stuff with the occasional newbie.)
Yes, all the time. Spikes and muscle belly destructions. We call both limb shots here.
We build them on the 3 fundamental defense options...head movement, parry, and cover. If you can parry a punch you can pull of a muscle belly hit in the SAME AMOUNT OF TIME. If you can cover or shield, you can spike in the SAME AMOUNT OF TIME.