DarrenJG - It's getting pretty hard now to say that Anderson isn't the best pound for pound fighter in the world. Fedor has had reason to slip a bit, GSP is great, but I don't know how Silva isn't CLEARLY the best fighter overall at this point.
Anyone disagree?
The fact that Fedor has NO legitimate losses in 30 career fights; routinely dispatching men much heavier and taller is just too hard to beat; if an until Fedor does actually sustain a legitimate loss he is the P4P best and absolute best MMA Fighter in the world.
Machida is 2nd with Anderson and GSP in the top 4.
Ok it's a little tough because Silva fought 3 more fighters than Fedor since Oct. 2006 but this is for 6 opponents of both Silva and Fedor. This is using Coleman,Hunt,Lindland,Choi,Sylvia,and Arlovski for Fedor. For Silva I am using Rich twice Lutter,Nate,Hendo,Griffin, for my first numbers.
Fedor opponents w/l before he fought them
80-22
After he fought them their records to date
83-35
So his opponents went on to win 3 more times and lose 13 more of their 16 next fights.
Anderson's opponents before he fought them
114-26
After he fought them their record to date
128-34
So they went on to win 14 and lose 12 in their next fights after Silva
Now that is using Silva's "better" opponents Not Leites,Cote,or Irvin
Also I must add that Fedor has fought 2 middleweights in this 3 years and a fighter with a 1-0 record in Choi and a fighter with a 5-2 record in Hunt.
Now both of these guys had good records in K1 but not MMA and both ironically got submitted in their fight with Fedor
Now if you put Leites,Irvin,and Cote in and we will take out Rich once and Griffin since it was today and Nate because he has more fights then most of the others you have Anderson at
Records before using Rich,Lutter,Hendo,Irvin,Cote,and Leites is 93-20 after they fought Silva they are 98-28 so they went on to win 5 and lose 8. Overall I would have to say that Silva definetly has the better record in the past 3 years dating back to October of 2006 which should weigh heavily on P4P rankings.
Wow, one of the smartest posts I've seen on the UG in awhile, audiophile.
Please start a thread using these numbers, Lyoto's and GSP's.
Actually the numbers kinda surprised me as well
audiophile26 - Ok it's a little tough because Silva fought 3 more fighters than Fedor since Oct. 2006 but this is for 6 opponents of both Silva and Fedor. This is using Coleman,Hunt,Lindland,Choi,Sylvia,and Arlovski for Fedor. For Silva I am using Rich twice Lutter,Nate,Hendo,Griffin, for my first numbers.
Fedor opponents w/l before he fought them
80-22
After he fought them their records to date
83-35
So his opponents went on to win 3 more times and lose 13 more of their 16 next fights.
Anderson's opponents before he fought them
114-26
After he fought them their record to date
128-34
So they went on to win 14 and lose 12 in their next fights after Silva
Now that is using Silva's "better" opponents Not Leites,Cote,or Irvin
Also I must add that Fedor has fought 2 middleweights in this 3 years and a fighter with a 1-0 record in Choi and a fighter with a 5-2 record in Hunt.
Now both of these guys had good records in K1 but not MMA and both ironically got submitted in their fight with Fedor
Now if you put Leites,Irvin,and Cote in and we will take out Rich once and Griffin since it was today and Nate because he has more fights then most of the others you have Anderson at
Records before using Rich,Lutter,Hendo,Irvin,Cote,and Leites is 93-20 after they fought Silva they are 98-28 so they went on to win 5 and lose 8. Overall I would have to say that Silva definetly has the better record in the past 3 years dating back to October of 2006 which should weigh heavily on P4P rankings.
you tell me whats wrong with that ok tell me what opponents you would use. It's not my fault Fedor only fought 6 times and Anderson 9. I had to pick 6 opponents. Even with his lesser opponents Anderson clearly takes this hands down
audiophile26 - you tell me whats wrong with that ok tell me what opponents you would use. It's not my fault Fedor only fought 6 times and Anderson 9. I had to pick 6 opponents. Even with his lesser opponents Anderson clearly takes this hands down
LMAO at haters denying the facts
audiophile26 - you tell me whats wrong with that ok tell me what opponents you would use. It's not my fault Fedor only fought 6 times and Anderson 9. I had to pick 6 opponents. Even with his lesser opponents Anderson clearly takes this hands down
hugojkd -slats - when anderson is in true trouble in a fight than i will put him ahead of FEDOR. he has basically controlled his fights in the ufc. don't get me wrong i love anderson but i just think FEDOR has the extra mental aspect that makes a true master. he may not be the greatest technically but he has the clutch it factor
I agree. Did Fedor ever lose via fluke subs against guys like Chonan or Takase? When has he phoned in disinterested performance the way Anderson did against Leites & Cote? He's had more than his share of freak show match ups, but he finished those off within minutes rather dragging them on round after round.
I love Silva, he's one of the greatest, along with Fedor, GSP, Penn, & Torres, but the fact remains that Fedor's never been legitimately beat in MMA & has never shown disinterest or strange mental lapses.
You could make a case that Silva, GSP, Penn, & Torres fight better competition more often than Fedor though...
Benny Whaler -
it doesnt matter which opponents you "pick" its faulty logic from the start
what a fighter does AFTER he fights the guy in question (Fedor and Anderson in this situation) has NO relevance.
NONE
at all
ZERO
DarrenJG - No, but when you clean out a whole division, and then move up in weight and utterly dominate and embarrass a former champion, you have wonder if anyone is better.
Anderson would beat Fedor, I do believe it. I really think a motivated Anderson is the best fighter of all time. He made Forest look like a keyboard warrior tonight.
DWray -Benny Whaler -
it doesnt matter which opponents you "pick" its faulty logic from the start
what a fighter does AFTER he fights the guy in question (Fedor and Anderson in this situation) has NO relevance.
NONE
at all
ZERO
I dunno, I'd say it kinda does. I think someone can have the warrior spirit beaten out of them. Chuck has not been Chuck since Rampage got him the second time.
Benny Whaler -audiophile26 - you tell me whats wrong with that ok tell me what opponents you would use. It's not my fault Fedor only fought 6 times and Anderson 9. I had to pick 6 opponents. Even with his lesser opponents Anderson clearly takes this hands down
it doesnt matter which opponents you "pick" its faulty logic from the start
what a fighter does AFTER he fights the guy in question (Fedor and Anderson in this situation) has NO relevance.
NONE
at all
ZERO
Jack Carter -DarrenJG - It's getting pretty hard now to say that Anderson isn't the best pound for pound fighter in the world. Fedor has had reason to slip a bit, GSP is great, but I don't know how Silva isn't CLEARLY the best fighter overall at this point.
Anyone disagree?
LOL. Get back to me when he beats a true top 10 heavy weight. Then that discussion can begin.
Until then, he's a 205 pounder fighting as a middle weight.
I mean I am not here to bash Fedor at all I was just gonna run the numbers and honestly I am pretty astonished at these numbers myself.
Uhhhh...me.
Until Fedor loses a fight (legitimately) he is #1 P4P.Anderson lost to has loses to Chonan & DAIJU TAKASE. Until Fedor has a KO/Sub/Decision loss, this is not debatable.
Even if we're talking last 3 years, Silva's only quality wins are over Franklin (x2), Henderson, Marquardt, & now Forrest.
Fedor's quality wins have come against Hunt, Sylvia, Arlovski & Lindland in the same time frame. We could have easily added Barnett's name to this list last weekend, and that would put Fedor's last 3 years over Silva's, IMO.
In fairness, Silva's last 3-4 years have been slightly more impressive, but he does not have the resume Fedor has. Not even close. Why is it, that a fighter that has beaten every big time Heavyweight in MMA history sans Couture, Mir & Lesnar, hasn't lost a fight, isn't #1 P4P. I don't get it?
REAL TALK.
even if records were the be all end all, which they aren't, that still means jack shit
those numbers dont reflect fighters, each fighter has fought different people at different times in their careers with different relevance depending on the circumstances of that particular point in time.
you can't simply post some numbers and try to pretend like you knew what was going on at a certain point in time, and the state of the various fighters' careers and thier abilities, what kind of threat they posed at that time. You can't see these things in simply viewing a fighter record and trying to compare it to another's.
its weak and flimsy