IBProfane - Uhhhh...me.
Until Fedor loses a fight (legitimately) he is #1 P4P.
Anderson lost to has loses to Chonan & DAIJU TAKASE. Until Fedor has a KO/Sub/Decision loss, this is not debatable.
Even if we're talking last 3 years, Silva's only quality wins are over Franklin (x2), Henderson, Marquardt, & now Forrest.
Fedor's quality wins have come against Hunt, Sylvia, Arlovski & Lindland in the same time frame. We could have easily added Barnett's name to this list last weekend, and that would put Fedor's last 3 years over Silva's, IMO.
In fairness, Silva's last 3-4 years have been slightly more impressive, but he does not have the resume Fedor has. Not even close. Why is it, that a fighter that has beaten every big time Heavyweight in MMA history sans Couture & Lesnar, hasn't lost a fight, isn't #1 P4P. I don't get it?
REAL TALK.
Hunt is 5-6 in MMA Franklin is25-4
Sylvia is24-6 Marquardt is 28-8
Arlovski is 15-7 Hendo is 25-7
Lindland is 21-6 Forrest is 16-6
REALLY what pops out on this list to you?
Top 5 P4P in my opinion...
#1 - Fedor
#2 - Lyoto
#3 - Anderson
#4 - GSP
#5 - Torres
Hunt is 5-6 in MMA Franklin is25-4Sylvia is24-6 Marquardt is 28-8Arlovski is 15-7 Hendo is 25-7Lindland is 21-6 Forrest is 16-6
REALLY what pops out on this list to you?
3 years worth of fights? Do you think this is how P4P should be judged? If so, then you have an arguement.
Well either way P4P is subjective to the each person and there are millions of people with an opinion. I was just looking at the records and thought I would post them. Take them how you want either agree or disagree but these are actual numbers of their opponents. You can say oh well so and so was good then or he sucked at this time but records don't lie.
audiophile26 - Well either way P4P is subjective to the each person and there are millions of people with an opinion. I was just looking at the records and thought I would post them. Take them how you want either agree or disagree but these are actual numbers of their opponents. You can say oh well so and so was good then or he sucked at this time but records don't lie.
The records don't lie...that's why I choose Fedor, for his overall resume. You have to account for injuries and things of that nature. For instance, Fedor missed PRIDE's 2006 Open Weight GP. He may have picked up 3 more wins in that same time frame, OR he may have lost, and he may be in the top 3-5 P4P discussion. Who knows? Anderson has been relatively healthy which we can assume is why he's had a good 3-4 more fights than Fedor.
hugojkd - My top 5 (for what it's worth):
#1 Fedor
#2 Torres
#3 Anderson
#4 GSP
#5 Lyoto
Don't know if there's a right answer to this question though. So many ways to slice & dice the data...
That is a damn good list. What has Torres won, like 17 fights in a row? Dude has to be in the discussion for top P4P, he just gets overlooked because of his weight class. Excited to see him battle Bowles tomorrow night, gonna be a great fight.
Benny Whaler - audiophile26 - Ok it's a little tough because Silva fought 3 more fighters than Fedor since Oct. 2006 but this is for 6 opponents of both Silva and Fedor. This is using Coleman,Hunt,Lindland,Choi,Sylvia,and Arlovski for Fedor. For Silva I am using Rich twice Lutter,Nate,Hendo,Griffin, for my first numbers.
Fedor opponents w/l before he fought them
80-22
After he fought them their records to date
83-35
So his opponents went on to win 3 more times and lose 13 more of their 16 next fights.
Anderson's opponents before he fought them
114-26
After he fought them their record to date
128-34
So they went on to win 14 and lose 12 in their next fights after Silva
Now that is using Silva's "better" opponents Not Leites,Cote,or Irvin
Also I must add that Fedor has fought 2 middleweights in this 3 years and a fighter with a 1-0 record in Choi and a fighter with a 5-2 record in Hunt.
Now both of these guys had good records in K1 but not MMA and both ironically got submitted in their fight with Fedor
Now if you put Leites,Irvin,and Cote in and we will take out Rich once and Griffin since it was today and Nate because he has more fights then most of the others you have Anderson at
Records before using Rich,Lutter,Hendo,Irvin,Cote,and Leites is 93-20 after they fought Silva they are 98-28 so they went on to win 5 and lose 8. Overall I would have to say that Silva definetly has the better record in the past 3 years dating back to October of 2006 which should weigh heavily on P4P rankings.
LOL @ this psuedo science garbage
cherry picking which opponents you use, not to mention the laughable nature of giving relevance to what opponents do AFTER they fight the fighter in question (Fedor and Anderson)
what nonsense
totally agree with you benny
this guy is picking the fighters, but more importantly the time period
if you really want to understand fighter strength and rankings using a 100% mathematical system, checkout MMA-elo
http://www.mma-elo.com/ranks.php?r=1someone link this, its good
audiophile26 -
Hunt is 5-6 in MMA Franklin is25-4
Sylvia is24-6 Marquardt is 28-8
Arlovski is 15-7 Hendo is 25-7
Lindland is 21-6 Forrest is 16-6
REALLY what pops out on this list to you?
dude, did you just discover the fight finder or something?
an argument presented with records alone has more holes than a pasta strainer
Actually it's 4 years woth of fight and not necessarily what I agree with but in this what have you done for me lately world that's pretty much how it goes. Look from these numbers I would come to the conclusion that #1 Fedor doesn't fight as often as he should.
2 He should be fighting higher caliber guys for being #1 heavyweight
3 Anderson has had more experienced opponets than Fedor has
4 Anderson has fought some not so spectacular guys as has Fedor.
5 Anderson has faced in the past 3 years atleast 2 guys that were considered #1 contender/#2 in the world at his weight class. Fedor has fought maybe 1 depending if Sylvia was #2 at the time. Which I don't think he was. also in the past 3 years Fedor has fought a MW and a guy with 1 pro win in Hong Man Choi
Anderson while some of his opponets have been sh!tty they have atleast 15 pro fights to their name when he fought them. Not to mention stepping up in class and defeating a former LHW champ.
audiophile26 - IBProfane - Uhhhh...me.
Until Fedor loses a fight (legitimately) he is #1 P4P.
Anderson lost to has loses to Chonan & DAIJU TAKASE. Until Fedor has a KO/Sub/Decision loss, this is not debatable.
Even if we're talking last 3 years, Silva's only quality wins are over Franklin (x2), Henderson, Marquardt, & now Forrest.
Fedor's quality wins have come against Hunt, Sylvia, Arlovski & Lindland in the same time frame. We could have easily added Barnett's name to this list last weekend, and that would put Fedor's last 3 years over Silva's, IMO.
In fairness, Silva's last 3-4 years have been slightly more impressive, but he does not have the resume Fedor has. Not even close. Why is it, that a fighter that has beaten every big time Heavyweight in MMA history sans Couture & Lesnar, hasn't lost a fight, isn't #1 P4P. I don't get it?
REAL TALK.
Hunt is 5-6 in MMA Franklin is25-4
Sylvia is24-6 Marquardt is 28-8
Arlovski is 15-7 Hendo is 25-7
Lindland is 21-6 Forrest is 16-6
REALLY what pops out on this list to you?
couture has a terrible record, does that mean a win over him wouldnt be as impressive as a win over franklin?
you have to consider that records mean practically nothing when you dont take into account a fighter's strength of schedule, thats why the mma-elo ranking system is the only one that really works
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
Say whatever the fuck you want man I am just showing numbers. If these numbers where in Fedor's favor I'm sure the tone would be different.
audiophile26 - Say whatever the fuck you want man I am just showing numbers. If these numbers where in Fedor's favor I'm sure the tone would be different.
the problem with your numbers as everyone has pointed out is that you are leaving a giant chunk of data out, namely anything other than the past 3 years
check out the links I posted earlier in the thread
It says nothing about MMA ranking on that system lurker
audiophile26 - Say whatever the fuck you want man I am just showing numbers.
thats my point, you're just showing numbers
the fact that you dont realize how empty that is (just looking at numbers) speaks volumes
MMA is not a baseball box score, bro. Learn this.
http://www.mma-elo.com/ranks.php?r=1
Insteresting site...according to them...Demian Maia has faced tougher opponenets in his last 3 years than Anderson Silva.
Top 10 Fighters with Toughest Opponents...
1. Georges St. Pierre
2. BJ Penn
3. Chuck Liddell
4. Josh Barnett
5. Josh Koscheck
6. Dan Henderson
7. Randy Couture
8. Andrei Arlovski
9. Rashad Evans
10. Kenny Florian
I'm assuming Fedor would be right there if he hadn't fought Hong Man Choi. Haha.
IBProfane -
http://www.mma-elo.com/ranks.php?r=1
Insteresting site...according to them...Demian Maia has faced tougher opponenets in his last 3 years than Anderson Silva.
Top 10 Fighters with Toughest Opponents...
1. Georges St. Pierre
2. BJ Penn
3. Chuck Liddell
4. Josh Barnett
5. Josh Koscheck
6. Dan Henderson
7. Randy Couture
8. Andrei Arlovski
9. Rashad Evans
10. Kenny Florian
I'm assuming Fedor would be right there if he hadn't fought Hong Man Choi. Haha.
no doubt he has faced alot of cans, but the rankings are a combination of strength of schedule (the ranking u posted) and personal record... so the MMA-ELO pfp list looks like this:
1 Fedor Emelianenko
2 Georges St. Pierre
3 Anderson Silva
4 Chuck Liddell
5 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
6 Lyoto Machida
7 Quinton Jackson
8 Mirko Filipovic
9 Jake Shields
10 Takanori Gomi
I assume Anderson might leap frog GSP after 2nights win...
now some of you may be thinking, Chuck, CroCop, Gomi on a PFP list today?
well yes, im sorry, but just because a fighter has a bad streak doesnt mean you can discount their whole body of work
these rankings are 100% mathematical and contain 0 bias
audiophile26 - It says nothing about MMA ranking on that system lurker
if you understand the system first you would understand how it contains 0 bias and is 100% mathematical... that was my point
here is the mma-elo rankings site
http://www.mma-elo.com/ranks.phpthis is real math, not nitpicky bullshit math
1 Fedor Emelianenko
2 Georges St. Pierre
3 Anderson Silva
LOL @ GSP being over Anderson Silva.
Jack Carter - 1 Fedor Emelianenko
2 Georges St. Pierre
3 Anderson Silva
LOL @ GSP being over Anderson Silva.
you mean LOL @ math right?
I pity your ignorance
I guess you forgot to mention that it doesn't include GSP's last 2 wins and also Fedor's last win.
I'm sure after beating BJ Penn and Thiago Alves he would move up considerably. Also since Fedor's last win was against Arlovski I would love to see where these rankings stand once maybe UPDATED!!
Edited for being a dumbass and not looking it up correctly :(