Are Strikes to Neck legal?

Underground
41

"and your first response was "Fail"."

Brand new anonymous screen name, obviously familiar with the forum, making a thread that had been done to death, and making a statement that appeared to be obvious trolling... I was stating that your trolling had failed. If you were not trolling my bad.

"I guess I have distracted people by making points that go against what you say."

Plenty of people make statements I disagree with, they are not intentionally inflammatory in the process. Some of the best discussions are with people who have a different viewpoint. You on the other hand as you have made clear are only trying to win. The discussion is a big fight to you or something.

"okay you are biased which means that no matter what points are made, you will never see the light."

Just because I disagree doesn't mean I have not seen the light, I'm biased but honest. You are one of the more biased people on this topic posting, I guess you will never see the light.

I'm a huge BJ Penn fan, I still thought it was obvious that GSP beat him, even though many felt BJ won. I didn't see any valid argument for BJ winning.

"I believe that I am the only person on this forum that has broken down the first round of the fight in every aspect, but you are correct I added nothing."

You did so with extreme bias, and a what appears to be a complete lack of understanding of the rules. It seems pretty obvious that your only intent was to start an argument.

Anyway I'm going to train and then to dinner, so you don't need to make another half dozen "where is smac1" posts, or accuse me of running away again. If you need more status on my whereabouts let me know.

42

Hey while you are there, let someone knee your body 15 times in less than a minute, while you hold them in side mount. Let me know if it hurts.

BTW: My thread was not a troll attempt. I felt very different about what I saw in the fight. The underground painted a picture that Renzo just smashed Frank. So I started a thread to question that, with examples proving otherwise.

Guess you couldnt come up with a lie that I apparently said.

These discussions are not big fights to me, only a person losing a debate would feel like they were in a fight.

I thought my breakdown of round 1 was VERY ACCURATE, and the judges seemed to have agreed.

Yes GSP beat Penn 2rds to 1. And BJ is one of my top 5 favorites. I am not biased at all when watching fights, but I will stick to what I think unless someone can show me something to prove otherwise, which you and most others on here have FAILED to do.

43

can someone please some me where knees are illegal to the side of the neck?

anyone?

44

Rob,

In my opinion the neck would be consider an extension of the head. If for no other reason, unless you are pin-point accurate, your striking the neck is a result of aiming for the head and being slightly off. So I think the strikes to the neck would be considered illegal. I could be wrong, just my opinion.

And I'm sorry I had to speak to Smac1 on this thread.

45

"which you and most others on here have FAILED to do.'

I showed you the rules... and the scoring they were fighting under. Renzo was winning by those rules and it's not even close.

Also saying that the knees Frank was using to annoy Renzo with to the body, the ones with no power and no leverage were the same as the knees Frank hit him in the head with is a lie. Nobody could watch them and believe that. It's not possible. It's like saying a jab that barely touches you is the same as a KO punch.

You are right, only someone who felt like they were losing would treat a discussion like a fight. I'm sorry you feel like you are losing. It's not about that, it's about sharing opinions.

46

"can someone please some me where knees are illegal to the side of the neck?"

Its almost impossible to knee the neck without contacting the skull, unless you have a very skinny knee or a very long neck.

47

cuzz is 100% correct.

Smac1, 

I do not feel that we are in a fight.  We both feel very strongly about what we saw in the fight, and we are both sticking to our guns.  I'm sorry that you take my opinion of the knees being the same as a lie(I didnt know opinions could be considered lies).  The knees were thrown from the exact same position(from the bottom in sidemount), the only difference is the leg throwing the blow, and the fact that he pushed his head first(which will add more impact, but the force throwing the blow would be the same).

Now can you answer a few simple questions with a yes or no answer?

Did the Franks knees to the body count for points?

Did the strikes that Renzo landed on his feet count for points?

Did the strikes Renzo landed on the ground count?

Did Renzo's 2 takedowns count more than Franks strikes standing up?

These are all yes/no questions, can you please answer them?

48

ttt

49

one more question

3:52 left in Rd1: Renzo lands a nice elbow!

Was this elbow legal or not?

Rules off of UFC.com
"No downward point of the elbow strikes "

50

I think it was illegal.

Renzo is a dirty man

51

agreed!

Can someone please post a gif of the elbow to Franks head. Thanks in advance.

52

"I do not feel that we are in a fight. We both feel very strongly about what we saw in the fight, and we are both sticking to our guns."

Then why do you keep saying I lost, and I've been owned?  Why do you keep following me around from thread to thread and making degrading comments?  Why did you bizarrely accuse me of running away?

"The knees were thrown from the exact same position"

Not true at all, the knees to the body were thrown when Frank was flat on his back and with nothing to use to gain leverage and he was in tight side control making it even more difficult to put any power behind them.

The knees to the head were thrown when Frank had posted up against the fence and was able to move his hips out and up.  He was also posting the foot against the fence to start it which gave it more power (sorry I'm not explaining that well but if you watch you will see that they are very different).

"Did the Franks knees to the body count for points?"

IMO NO they were not "heavy" strikes.  Although it could be argued (correctly IMO) that they minimized Renzo's positional dominance somewhat by distracting/ interfering with what he was trying to do.

"Did the strikes that Renzo landed on his feet count for points?"

I'd have to watch again to see if there were any heavy strikes.  Might have been one.  My initial memory is NO.  Clearly in isolation Frank was better standing.

"Did the strikes Renzo landed on the ground count?"

IMO NO they were not heavy strikes, though he was showing grappling and fighting area dominance at the time.

Did Renzo's 2 takedowns count more than Franks strikes standing up?

IMO YES, because they score in multiple facets of the scoring system, and nullified Frank's ability to strike.  Taken as isolated incidents probably NO or EVEN.

"3:52 left in Rd1: Renzo lands a nice elbow! Was this elbow legal or not?"

Big John has explained on this forum that an elbow is only considered illegal if it starts at 12:00 and finishes at 6:00 coming straight down.

Quoting BJM;

"The only illegal elbow is one thrown with the hand straight up in the air and elbow coming straight down. 12 to 6 on the clock."

"You are allowed to bring your hand across your opponent and deliver an elbow strike coming from say 10 to 4."

If BJM is explaining the intent of the rule properly (and I think most would respect his explanation as accurate) I would say NO.

 Link to BJM quotes 

53

"Not true at all, the knees to the body were thrown when Frank was flat on his back and with nothing to use to gain leverage and he was in tight side control making it even more difficult to put any power behind them."

Watch again Frank landed several knees to the BODY, with his other leg posted on the fence. End of 1stRd, Renzo's non-scoring punches, were while Frank landed 3 knees to the body, other leg posted on fence(so those knees counted, from what you say they would be power shots).

"The only illegal elbow is one thrown with the hand straight up in the air and elbow coming straight down. 12 to 6 on the clock." BJM

12 to 6 - Anatomically 12=the head 6=the feet. so from head toward feet would be illegal, exactly how the elbow was delivered.

You post the knees image can you post the elbow image?

54

Why did you bizarrely accuse me of running away?

Goto the thread title "Shamrock Dominated?" there you will see a direct question to you, and still you have not answered that question. You have not posted on that thread since the question was asked.

55

"Goto the thread title "Shamrock Dominated?" there you will see a direct question to you, and still you have not answered that question. You have not posted on that thread since the question was asked."

I think I stopped posting on that thread after posting "fail" because I believed you were trolling.

"12 to 6 - Anatomically 12=the head 6=the feet. so from head toward feet would be illegal, exactly how the elbow was delivered."

"The only illegal elbow is one thrown with the hand straight up in the air and elbow coming straight down".

"You are allowed to bring your hand across your opponent and deliver an elbow strike "

It's not anatomical, it's actual as BJM clearly explains.  The elbow was thrown from around 9:00 and landed at around 3:00.  The elbow strike is across not down.  It's not even debatable as illegal.

If I could find the GIF somewhere I would post it.  I have not seen a gif of it.

Also I see your point about the last knee or two at the end of round 1.  I still don't think that Shamrock had nearly the leverage, but I would guess that last knee should score.  Saying they were exactly the same is stretching the truth dramatically on your part.

56

""So you take me down once in a fight, and I knee your body over and over again, whose winning, me or you? "

The question is much to vague.  If I'm still on top of you, and you can't get me off, and all I have to do to stop your knees is move to another dominate position... I probably am. 

If your knees are hurting me badly, and cause me to give up position so that you can pummel me more... you probably are.

Who is winning in a real fight has no bearing on the scoring of a sport fight.

57

Renzo moved positions multiple times from the side mount knees.

Any work he was trying to do was from sidemount, but moved after the knees.

58

"Any work he was trying to do was from sidemount, but moved after the knees. "

Agree,  see my previous statement;

IMO NO they were not "heavy" strikes.  Although it could be argued (correctly IMO) that they minimized Renzo's positional dominance somewhat by distracting/ interfering with what he was trying to do.

59

you are really reaching

we need fight science to measure the 'heavyness' of the knees in question

60

"you are really reaching"

The whole thing is reaching at this point. I think you are reaching to even suggest that they are heavy strikes. I can't see any valid argument for it.

I also think that trying to suggest an elbow that is clearly legal was illegal even though it is not relevant to the discussion in any way shape or form is reaching.