Askren shut out tonight against Jordan Burroughs

FatBuddha - 
wiggum - 
Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.

Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?

It’s definitely an ‘alternative’ style of double legging. Not the norm and would surely be helpful for submission defense. It existed long before Burroughs, but Burroughs is the undisputed master of it. If Burroughs innovated, it’s in his reliance on it and his willingness to go there from his knees.

It’s among the most timing dependent moves in wrestling.

How do you not fuck your neck up doing it this way or is there a danger of that? Because it seems like you’re literally spearing your head into your opponent with no helmet on.

You go face first; not ‘head first.’ It requires that your neck is flexed. A ton of handfighting and leg attacks involve leading with head position. No danger at all.

Great interview. Even though Burroughs was rubbing it in pretty solid LOL

Winston Wolf - in wrestling there is no taking it easy or carrying an opponent.What was the score

11-0

wiggum - 
FatBuddha - 
wiggum - 
Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.

Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?

It’s definitely an ‘alternative’ style of double legging. Not the norm and would surely be helpful for submission defense. It existed long before Burroughs, but Burroughs is the undisputed master of it. If Burroughs innovated, it’s in his reliance on it and his willingness to go there from his knees.

It’s among the most timing dependent moves in wrestling.

How do you not fuck your neck up doing it this way or is there a danger of that? Because it seems like you’re literally spearing your head into your opponent with no helmet on.

You go face first; not ‘head first.’ It requires that your neck is flexed. A ton of handfighting and leg attacks involve leading with head position. No danger at all.

By head first, I mean the top of the skull.

KnockoutThoughts - 

Fuck going easy! Burroughs did what he was supposed to do, and that's dominate. Fuck throwing a match or taking it easy. Competition is about putting your best out there, and Askren just found out he can't fuck with Burroughs on ANY LEVEL. Domination. Askren got slammed on his head by Robbie Lawler ffs. Dad bod shows Askren's lack of dedication to his craft. You start half assing against the best, and the results won't be in your favor.. Askren got exposed.. AGAIN. 

Ben is a one time Olympian 10 years past his prime; Burroughs is a four time world champion. No person thought they were on the same level.

That said, Ben didn’t get exposed. He is a Hodge trophy winner, an Olympian, a record holder for pins. Losing to Burroughs doesn’t change any of that. And he has had the same dad bod throughout.

He lost a charity match. Askren and Burroughs and wrestling all come out as winners.

KnockoutThoughts - 

Fuck going easy! Burroughs did what he was supposed to do, and that's dominate. Fuck throwing a match or taking it easy. Competition is about putting your best out there, and Askren just found out he can't fuck with Burroughs on ANY LEVEL. Domination. Askren got slammed on his head by Robbie Lawler ffs. Dad bod shows Askren's lack of dedication to his craft. You start half assing against the best, and the results won't be in your favor.. Askren got exposed.. AGAIN. 

Found the guy that has never wrestled and knows fuck all about it.

wiggum - 
Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.

Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?

It’s definitely an ‘alternative’ style of double legging. Not the norm and would surely be helpful for submission defense. It existed long before Burroughs, but Burroughs is the undisputed master of it. If Burroughs innovated, it’s in his reliance on it and his willingness to go there from his knees.

It’s among the most timing dependent moves in wrestling.

It’s actually the proper way to shoot a double and not an alternative style.

I'm amazed at how unstoppable that dbl leg is...

It's unorthodox right? 

He lowers onto the knee of the back leg and does it so early and far away before he ever shoots. It just seems like everyone should see it coming and circle out or something... yet it's so damn successful. Besides sheer speed, what makes it so effective?

RESPECT x 1000 to Askren from eseentially human sacrificing himself vs one of the best & knowing he'd lose, But that this would put the spotlight on the sport he loves "Wrestling" with the general public like nothing else could unless Brock lesnar or GSP touched down

Jacinto - 
wiggum - 
Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.

Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?

It’s definitely an ‘alternative’ style of double legging. Not the norm and would surely be helpful for submission defense. It existed long before Burroughs, but Burroughs is the undisputed master of it. If Burroughs innovated, it’s in his reliance on it and his willingness to go there from his knees.

It’s among the most timing dependent moves in wrestling.

It’s actually the proper way to shoot a double and not an alternative style.

You are wrong.

I’m not sure how much experience you have in the sport. But, the dominant technique in terms of what is taught and what is executed has the head further to the side than JB uses it. That’s why people call it a Burroughs Double. It’s different than a typical double.

Don’t take my word for it, though. Take Dan Gable’s: Dan Gable - Leg double Attacks - YouTube

Or Cary Kolat’s: Wrestling Moves KOLAT.COM Double Leg Takedown & Finish - YouTube

Or Sergei Belaglozgov’s: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x62bubw

Or Bruce Baumgartner’s: https://www.flowrestling.org/training?q=double%20leg&limit=45&playing=5501968

Or Bekzod Abdurakmonov (who owns a tech over JB, as well as some losses): Wrestling Training | Videos, News, & Articles - FloWrestling

Or Henry Cejudo’s: Double Leg To Turk Finish by Henry Cejudo - YouTube

Or Damian Hahn’s: Damion Hahn double and single - YouTube

Or Hodge Trophy winner, Ben Askren’s: Double leg takedowns video 2 - YouTube

Meatgrinder - 

I'm amazed at how unstoppable that dbl leg is...

It's unorthodox right? 

He lowers onto the knee of the back leg and does it so early and far away before he ever shoots. It just seems like everyone should see it coming and circle out or something... yet it's so damn successful. Besides sheer speed, what makes it so effective?

Fakes and timing.

PelosiesPanties - 
TwoCheekSneak - 

Lol askren is such a clown 

Yeah, because challenging yourself is so stupid eh? We should all be like you, NEVER challenging ourselves to anything and just sit on ass and make stupid remarks on an Internet message board.

Congratulations, you just made sure we all know how pathetic you are!

Anyone who knows Askren knows that he loves Wrestling, he lives and breaths the sport and has remained active in that in one fashion or another. He just got to test himself against the current day badass, I think that was awesome and don’t blame him because why not? Oh, he got wrecked by Burroughs? So what? That is exactly what was supposed to happen and Askren got to give it a go.

Yup.

Ben never pretended like he had more than a pinner’s chance. He tested himself and raised a lot of money for BTS and gave USA wrestling’s star more exposure.

wiggum - 
Jacinto - 
wiggum - 
Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.

Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?

It’s definitely an ‘alternative’ style of double legging. Not the norm and would surely be helpful for submission defense. It existed long before Burroughs, but Burroughs is the undisputed master of it. If Burroughs innovated, it’s in his reliance on it and his willingness to go there from his knees.

It’s among the most timing dependent moves in wrestling.

It’s actually the proper way to shoot a double and not an alternative style.

You are wrong.

I’m not sure how much experience you have in the sport. But, the dominant technique in terms of what is taught and what is executed has the head further to the side than JB uses it. That’s why people call it a Burroughs Double. It’s different than a typical double.

Don’t take my word for it, though. Take Dan Gable’s: Dan Gable - Leg double Attacks - YouTube

Or Cary Kolat’s: Wrestling Moves KOLAT.COM Double Leg Takedown & Finish - YouTube

Or Sergei Belaglozgov’s: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x62bubw

Or Bruce Baumgartner’s: https://www.flowrestling.org/training?q=double%20leg&limit=45&playing=5501968

Or Bekzod Abdurakmonov (who owns a tech over JB, as well as some losses): Wrestling Training | Videos, News, & Articles - FloWrestling

Or Henry Cejudo’s: Double Leg To Turk Finish by Henry Cejudo - YouTube

Or Damian Hahn’s: Damion Hahn double and single - YouTube

Or Hodge Trophy winner, Ben Askren’s: Double leg takedowns video 2 - YouTube

Lol.

And thanks Wiggs. I think ive watched more judo than wrestling since the advent of youtube so its always nice to go back and watch some wrestling matches and instructionals. I did recall seeing a JB breakdown of his double years ago and thought it was interesting back then where he placed his head on his double.

Btw, i was never familiar with the Russian style when I was wrestling in high school. I did like throws and trips because I was also doing judo at the same time and when I finally saw some Russian instructionals, it looked like no-gi judo to me.

So much has been said of Khabib’s style and how he is not that particularly strong in shooting in the open mat and how he does not drive thru on his double like the American blast doubles.

SO THE QUESTION IS: are blast doubles more of an American thing? Do the Russians…or say Iranians do them?

When I was taught doubles in high school, of course we realized with drilling and competition, you take what you can get but the technique was more turning the corner when you couldn’t get the pick up. Are doubles even a standard move at all in Russian style wreslting?

Btw...and we can maybe get at it more depth on another thread but I am still wondering how many wrestlers who wrestle right handed with the right foot forward and shoot with the head on opponent's RIGHT side - change to orthodox in MMA but shoot with their head to the opponent's LEFT side?

I noticed that GSP’s double threat of the jab/shoot works because he stands ortho but shoots with head to the opponent’s left as well. Same with Aldo (even though he’s not a particularly noted offensive wrestler). Weidman I believe too shoots to the opponent’s left. This is still a technical issue that boggles me until this day.

I remember Rashad showing an instructional on how he transitions from striking to shooting and he stood ortho, and transitioned to a double with head to the opponent’s left as he struck his right hand - hit the 2 then changed levels and shifted stances from there.

But I don’t think there are many high level MMA wrestlers that do that?

Ok, interestingly enough, the first link I checked above was Cejudo's and he hits his head to the opponent's RIGHT - standard right handed, right footward stance to head to opponent's RIGHT.

BUT in MMA, he does stand orthodox, in that long karate stance no less but believe he still shoots with head to the opponent’s RIGHT from the clips I could find.

Hahahahah....JB:  "Some people have it.....and some people have some of it"  LOL

This is a great thing these guys did.  Made me more of a fan of wrestling.

wiggum - 
Meatgrinder - 

I'm amazed at how unstoppable that dbl leg is...

It's unorthodox right? 

He lowers onto the knee of the back leg and does it so early and far away before he ever shoots. It just seems like everyone should see it coming and circle out or something... yet it's so damn successful. Besides sheer speed, what makes it so effective?

Fakes and timing.

Plus brute fucking strength combined with a million reps practicing over the past 20 years.

Siciliano di Brooklyn - 
wiggum - 
Meatgrinder - 

I'm amazed at how unstoppable that dbl leg is...

It's unorthodox right? 

He lowers onto the knee of the back leg and does it so early and far away before he ever shoots. It just seems like everyone should see it coming and circle out or something... yet it's so damn successful. Besides sheer speed, what makes it so effective?

Fakes and timing.

Plus brute fucking strength combined with a million reps practicing over the past 20 years.

For sure. The timing only exists because of the drilling.

Wasa-B - 
wiggum - 
Jacinto - 
wiggum - 
Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.

Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?

It’s definitely an ‘alternative’ style of double legging. Not the norm and would surely be helpful for submission defense. It existed long before Burroughs, but Burroughs is the undisputed master of it. If Burroughs innovated, it’s in his reliance on it and his willingness to go there from his knees.

It’s among the most timing dependent moves in wrestling.

It’s actually the proper way to shoot a double and not an alternative style.

You are wrong.

I’m not sure how much experience you have in the sport. But, the dominant technique in terms of what is taught and what is executed has the head further to the side than JB uses it. That’s why people call it a Burroughs Double. It’s different than a typical double.

Don’t take my word for it, though. Take Dan Gable’s: Dan Gable - Leg double Attacks - YouTube

Or Cary Kolat’s: Wrestling Moves KOLAT.COM Double Leg Takedown & Finish - YouTube

Or Sergei Belaglozgov’s: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x62bubw

Or Bruce Baumgartner’s: https://www.flowrestling.org/training?q=double%20leg&limit=45&playing=5501968

Or Bekzod Abdurakmonov (who owns a tech over JB, as well as some losses): Wrestling Training | Videos, News, & Articles - FloWrestling

Or Henry Cejudo’s: Double Leg To Turk Finish by Henry Cejudo - YouTube

Or Damian Hahn’s: Damion Hahn double and single - YouTube

Or Hodge Trophy winner, Ben Askren’s: Double leg takedowns video 2 - YouTube

Lol.

And thanks Wiggs. I think ive watched more judo than wrestling since the advent of youtube so its always nice to go back and watch some wrestling matches and instructionals. I did recall seeing a JB breakdown of his double years ago and thought it was interesting back then where he placed his head on his double.

Btw, i was never familiar with the Russian style when I was wrestling in high school. I did like throws and trips because I was also doing judo at the same time and when I finally saw some Russian instructionals, it looked like no-gi judo to me.

So much has been said of Khabib’s style and how he is not that particularly strong in shooting in the open mat and how he does not drive thru on his double like the American blast doubles.

SO THE QUESTION IS: are blast doubles more of an American thing? Do the Russians…or say Iranians do them?

When I was taught doubles in high school, of course we realized with drilling and competition, you take what you can get but the technique was more turning the corner when you couldn’t get the pick up. Are doubles even a standard move at all in Russian style wreslting?

I don’t think one country does it more than others; it’s varies wrestler to wrestler. But, of the three countries, Iran probably does the most work with their face in their opponent’s chest. (Including their snatch singles).

Doubles are absolutely a standard move across the world.

Wasa-B - Btw...and we can maybe get at it more depth on another thread but I am still wondering how many wrestlers who wrestle right handed with the right foot forward and shoot with the head on opponent's RIGHT side - change to orthodox in MMA but shoot with their head to the opponent's LEFT side?

I noticed that GSP’s double threat of the jab/shoot works because he stands ortho but shoots with head to the opponent’s left as well. Same with Aldo (even though he’s not a particularly noted offensive wrestler). Weidman I believe too shoots to the opponent’s left. This is still a technical issue that boggles me until this day.

I remember Rashad showing an instructional on how he transitions from striking to shooting and he stood ortho, and transitioned to a double with head to the opponent’s left as he struck his right hand - hit the 2 then changed levels and shifted stances from there.

But I don’t think there are many high level MMA wrestlers that do that?

Most wrestlers are somewhat ambidextrous with leanings toward one side or another.

I got lucky. I’m naturally a southpaw kickboxer and a righty wrestler. It means my right leg is the lead regardless. (I now fight out of both stances; but this helped me early on in my career).

For years, I avoided Rashad’s strategy. However, I’ve been using it for the past two years and honestly love it. Maybe as I get older and slower, it is more friendly for me. TJ used it a lot against Lineakar and Assunsao iirc.

Kevin Lee does the opposite and it’s really interesting: UFC's Kevin Lee teaches his double leg takedown with strikes! - YouTube