Meatgrinder -I'm amazed at how unstoppable that dbl leg is...
It's unorthodox right?
He lowers onto the knee of the back leg and does it so early and far away before he ever shoots. It just seems like everyone should see it coming and circle out or something... yet it's so damn successful. Besides sheer speed, what makes it so effective?
Frank Chamizo has a style that can defend against JB - I think he lacks in cardio though.
wiggum -Meatgrinder -I'm amazed at how unstoppable that dbl leg is...
It's unorthodox right?
He lowers onto the knee of the back leg and does it so early and far away before he ever shoots. It just seems like everyone should see it coming and circle out or something... yet it's so damn successful. Besides sheer speed, what makes it so effective?
Fakes and timing.
And the ability to keep re-shooting while moving on his knees.
Many of his take-downs are re-shots or re-re-shots ect.
Slick as hell the way he can keep chasing someone from his knees.
Most definitely unorthodox, and nearly unstoppable when done by him.
Taco Muncher -Steamrolled!
But Askren was brave enough to give it a shot. Respect!
This all day. Give the man some props.
Wasa-B - Btw...and we can maybe get at it more depth on another thread but I am still wondering how many wrestlers who wrestle right handed with the right foot forward and shoot with the head on opponent's RIGHT side - change to orthodox in MMA but shoot with their head to the opponent's LEFT side?I noticed that GSP’s double threat of the jab/shoot works because he stands ortho but shoots with head to the opponent’s left as well. Same with Aldo (even though he’s not a particularly noted offensive wrestler). Weidman I believe too shoots to the opponent’s left. This is still a technical issue that boggles me until this day.
I remember Rashad showing an instructional on how he transitions from striking to shooting and he stood ortho, and transitioned to a double with head to the opponent’s left as he struck his right hand - hit the 2 then changed levels and shifted stances from there.
But I don’t think there are many high level MMA wrestlers that do that?
I wonder if some of these guys who switch stances are ambidextrous in their doubles.. if they only shoot from one stance.. of if they shoot from either stance but still always put their head on the same side of the opponent regardless.
Stu Cazzo -Meatgrinder -I'm amazed at how unstoppable that dbl leg is...
It's unorthodox right?
He lowers onto the knee of the back leg and does it so early and far away before he ever shoots. It just seems like everyone should see it coming and circle out or something... yet it's so damn successful. Besides sheer speed, what makes it so effective?
Frank Chamizo has a style that can defend against JB - I think he lacks in cardio though.
Chamizo is awesome.
Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?
Wat?
BS7671 -Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?
Wat?
What was unclear about his post?
Why do we care? Maybe you can cheer for him in a celebrity golf tournament soon. Idiot nut suckers.
Lucas Maximus -He shouldn't have done that, look what happened to Conor when he did another sport, then came back and lost
Yeah, Conor actually had success. While Askren the so called master grappler got embarrassed and shut out. Conor actually won rounds against Floyd and landed punches. Conor is the real master of his field. Not Askren. Conor's boxing>>>>>>>>>>>Askren's wrestling. Yet Askren is the one who gets hyped for being some kind of "master." What a joke. The Conor hate on internet forums from the vocal minority of losers lashing out online, mad against the world, has become nothing more then a meme. What a shame. It is ignorance too. The common man can not appreciate Conor's brilliance because he doesnt know enough about fighting to understand what Conor is doing, or how Conor is setting that trap
Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?
Mo Lawal also had a fucking terrific blast double. I thought he’d own people in MMA with it after I watched him clean house with the blast double in “Real Pro Wrestling.” However, I haven’t seen Mo hit a single blast double in MMA.
I’ll also go out on a limb amd say that Mo would’ve had more success if he stuck with wrestling instead of transitioning to MMA.
Back to the blast double in MMA -it seems like a perfect tool. It doesn’t require you to get super low -just a quick, slight level change and you flatten you opponent. However, I can’t recall a single one in MMA off the top of my head. It was never my move, so maybe Wiggum can elaborate on the finer more technical points of this move.
5 o clock shadow -Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?
Mo Lawal also had a fucking terrific blast double. I thought he’d own people in MMA with it after I watched him clean house with the blast double in “Real Pro Wrestling.” However, I haven’t seen Mo hit a single blast double in MMA.
I’ll also go out on a limb amd say that Mo would’ve had more success if he stuck with wrestling instead of transitioning to MMA.
Back to the blast double in MMA -it seems like a perfect tool. It doesn’t require you to get super low -just a quick, slight level change and you flatten you opponent. However, I can’t recall a single one in MMA off the top of my head. It was never my move, so maybe Wiggum can elaborate on the finer more technical points of this move.
You cant recall a single blast double pulled off in MMA?
wiggum -Wasa-B - Btw...and we can maybe get at it more depth on another thread but I am still wondering how many wrestlers who wrestle right handed with the right foot forward and shoot with the head on opponent's RIGHT side - change to orthodox in MMA but shoot with their head to the opponent's LEFT side?I noticed that GSP’s double threat of the jab/shoot works because he stands ortho but shoots with head to the opponent’s left as well. Same with Aldo (even though he’s not a particularly noted offensive wrestler). Weidman I believe too shoots to the opponent’s left. This is still a technical issue that boggles me until this day.
I remember Rashad showing an instructional on how he transitions from striking to shooting and he stood ortho, and transitioned to a double with head to the opponent’s left as he struck his right hand - hit the 2 then changed levels and shifted stances from there.
But I don’t think there are many high level MMA wrestlers that do that?
Most wrestlers are somewhat ambidextrous with leanings toward one side or another.
I got lucky. I’m naturally a southpaw kickboxer and a righty wrestler. It means my right leg is the lead regardless. (I now fight out of both stances; but this helped me early on in my career).
For years, I avoided Rashad’s strategy. However, I’ve been using it for the past two years and honestly love it. Maybe as I get older and slower, it is more friendly for me. TJ used it a lot against Lineakar and Assunsao iirc.
Kevin Lee does the opposite and it’s really interesting: UFC's Kevin Lee teaches his double leg takedown with strikes! - YouTube
I guess since I only wrestled in high school, I never really got to see higher level stuff and notice abmbidextrousness. I did judo after high school so was somewhat more analytical at that stage and it was considered pretty badass if you could throw off both sides. Most guys had a preference, some good throw both sides. A bit different with judo because you can rely on a gi grip where for example…you can attempt a ippon seoi (one arm shoulder throw with the right arm but holding the lapel instead of sleeve with your left hand…you can then attempt a hip throw to the left with your left hand lapel grip…if that makes sense).
Wasa-B -5 o clock shadow -Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?
Mo Lawal also had a fucking terrific blast double. I thought he’d own people in MMA with it after I watched him clean house with the blast double in “Real Pro Wrestling.” However, I haven’t seen Mo hit a single blast double in MMA.
I’ll also go out on a limb amd say that Mo would’ve had more success if he stuck with wrestling instead of transitioning to MMA.
Back to the blast double in MMA -it seems like a perfect tool. It doesn’t require you to get super low -just a quick, slight level change and you flatten you opponent. However, I can’t recall a single one in MMA off the top of my head. It was never my move, so maybe Wiggum can elaborate on the finer more technical points of this move.
You cant recall a single blast double pulled off in MMA?
Not off the top of my head. What about you Wasa B? Who have we seen level change and run right through someone?
Freestyle is the point karate of wrestling.
Wiggum: "I got lucky. I'm naturally a southpaw kickboxer and a righty wrestler. It means my right leg is the lead regardless."
That is really rare, aint it?
Also, thanks for that Kev Lee clip! I believe I have seen Mendes show the same sequence with the left hook / shoot double threat. I have zero MMA training but from just fucking around with this stuff on my own, it would seem that the requiring of a striking combo that transitions a stance switch is not nearly as fast/efficient/ready to go as shooting from the same striking stance.
Again, the prime example would seem to be GSP’s double threat stance with the jab and shoot. He also has a lower stance than a typical striking stance to jab as well. He has more weight on the lead left foot to already be somewhat lowered for the shoot but can still pop the jab just as well.
I couldn’t find the Mendes clip I was thinking of BUT…found a very interesting clip of some angle creating from strikes to set up the td. He does enter “shooting right” (head on opponent’s left, right leg forward) but the way it’s set up is real interesting: Chad Mendes technique| Striking to Takedowns from Different Angles - YouTube
Just watching how dynamic Mendes is with his striking and wrestling, I really would have liked to see a full camp Mendes vs a healthy Connor. Connor would have been faster on his feet thus holding more range but I would have liked to have seen how Bang/TAM would have prepared Mendes for Connor's striking to get to the tds.
The monkey wrench were them front snaps kicks. Mendes def was not prepared for those and that sucked his gas up too.
wiggum -Jacinto -wiggum -Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?
It’s definitely an ‘alternative’ style of double legging. Not the norm and would surely be helpful for submission defense. It existed long before Burroughs, but Burroughs is the undisputed master of it. If Burroughs innovated, it’s in his reliance on it and his willingness to go there from his knees.
It’s among the most timing dependent moves in wrestling.
It’s actually the proper way to shoot a double and not an alternative style.
You are wrong.
I’m not sure how much experience you have in the sport. But, the dominant technique in terms of what is taught and what is executed has the head further to the side than JB uses it. That’s why people call it a Burroughs Double. It’s different than a typical double.
Don’t take my word for it, though. Take Dan Gable’s: Dan Gable - Leg double Attacks - YouTube
Or Cary Kolat’s: Wrestling Moves KOLAT.COM Double Leg Takedown & Finish - YouTube
Or Sergei Belaglozgov’s: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x62bubw
Or Bruce Baumgartner’s: Wrestling Training | Videos, News, & Articles - FloWrestling
Or Bekzod Abdurakmonov (who owns a tech over JB, as well as some losses): Wrestling Training | Videos, News, & Articles - FloWrestling
Or Henry Cejudo’s: Double Leg To Turk Finish by Henry Cejudo - YouTube
Or Damian Hahn’s: Damion Hahn double and single - YouTube
Or Hodge Trophy winner, Ben Askren’s: Double leg takedowns video 2 - YouTube
hahaha, talk about supporting your point with evidence! And thanks for the great list of links too, voted up.
5 o clock shadow -Wasa-B -5 o clock shadow -Wasa-B - Dam, now that's a blast double. Was Ben smiling when he got dumped? Double leg ippon.Technical question: is that style that Burroughs does with the head ramming thru the solarplex area pretty widespread or is that a Burroughs thing? Would that work well for MMA to defend against guillotines when you shoot with head to the side?
Mo Lawal also had a fucking terrific blast double. I thought he’d own people in MMA with it after I watched him clean house with the blast double in “Real Pro Wrestling.” However, I haven’t seen Mo hit a single blast double in MMA.
I’ll also go out on a limb amd say that Mo would’ve had more success if he stuck with wrestling instead of transitioning to MMA.
Back to the blast double in MMA -it seems like a perfect tool. It doesn’t require you to get super low -just a quick, slight level change and you flatten you opponent. However, I can’t recall a single one in MMA off the top of my head. It was never my move, so maybe Wiggum can elaborate on the finer more technical points of this move.
You cant recall a single blast double pulled off in MMA?
Not off the top of my head. What about you Wasa B? Who have we seen level change and run right through someone?
I would say countless fights but are you talking exactly like how JB does it? Like level changing to the knees? Im just talking normal doubles where they blast thru. That’s a pretty standard MMA td, no? But sure, not with lowering to the knees and blasting from there…
GSP loves the blast double
Stu Cazzo -
GSP loves the blast double
GSP definitely comes the closest. He doesn’t explicitly hit a blast double; I think he lowers his level and drives–whether his head is on the side or the chest doesn’t really matter to him.
So, why don’t we see blast doubles more in MMA? A Burroughs double requires lowering your level a LOT and blasting UP. That’s really hard in MMA where you can’t level change as much and the initial stance is much higher than in wrestling. When your head is on the side, you have a bunch of options other than driving; you can cut the corner, get to the cage, etc.
Related, iirc, Jones has hit takedowns off the cage where his head is on the chest.