HuntingtonPUNK - it would be hell for a black belt to roll with these guys, get real with your knowledge of how superior wrestling is. Does your BJJ class train like this, this is a short time class
Being in shape doesn't = sub defense or knowledge.
Exactly! Is a wrestler immune to being armbarred because his bicep is so strong, he'd be able to curl you while you try to extend his arm? No, lol. Jiu jitsu is 'the gentle art' not the muscle art.
HuntingtonPUNK - it would be hell for a black belt to roll with these guys, get real with your knowledge of how superior wrestling is. Does your BJJ class train like this, this is a short time class
I dont think all wrestlers are great athletes. Its still a sport where the small kid who works his ass off can succeed.
In my opinion, whats most to be admired about the wrestling culture is the incredible work ethic. There are better athletes out there but you will be hard pressed to find a group of them that works as hard as a group of collegiate wrestlers.
As for the club level blue against the wrestler? In a friendly roll starting from the knees with sub grappling rules I dont think its out of the question that the blue catches the wrestler in a sub from guard IF the wrestler has zero BJJ or sub grappling knowledge. Give the wrestler a week of experience with sub-grappling and the blue doesnt have a chance. Also, from the feet in a tournament type situation I think the wrestler takes it as well.
Im a club level blue that rolls with a Div 1 wrestler on occasion.
Lol at this tired ass argument. If you've got a wrestling base then of course your gonna get better at BJJ aster than your average Joe. Wrestling is a awesome sport!
Chris Toher - If you ever have a div 1 wrestler come to your school and you are an average two year blue belt be prepared for a beatin you will not soon forget. If he trains with your school for six months he will beat some of your purples. Nuf said
FYI I say all of this as a Black Belt in BJJ so I am not just blowing smoke. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is mine.
There's been wrestlers that have come to school where I train, don't know what division they wrestled in tho. Not sure why it'll matter cuz I clearly stated that I'd get taken down even by a shitty wrestler. That's your opinion but I feel like 2 years of BJJ would be enough to beat anyone in BJJ (same weight) that hasn't trained BJJ. I don't see how being a good wrestler would help in defending triangles, armbars, leg locks, gogoplatas and so on.
right your right of course if the other guy has no expierance in your sport you'll win. Thats not even a debate. what you fail to grasp is that once the wrestler has 6 mounths expierance maybe less depending on who and how much they train your toast dude. This is not because of the greatness of wrestling but because all those things like body awareness and mat aweareness and hip movement and hip control and on and on that took you and most others 6 mounths or a year to get used too the wrestleers been doing his whole life plus there are a ton of moves and movements that cross through both sports. the simply fact is the wrestler is years ahead of you on the learning curve. Deal with it
Chris Toher - If you ever have a div 1 wrestler come to your school and you are an average two year blue belt be prepared for a beatin you will not soon forget. If he trains with your school for six months he will beat some of your purples. Nuf said
FYI I say all of this as a Black Belt in BJJ so I am not just blowing smoke. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is mine.
There's been wrestlers that have come to school where I train, don't know what division they wrestled in tho. Not sure why it'll matter cuz I clearly stated that I'd get taken down even by a shitty wrestler. That's your opinion but I feel like 2 years of BJJ would be enough to beat anyone in BJJ (same weight) that hasn't trained BJJ. I don't see how being a good wrestler would help in defending triangles, armbars, leg locks, gogoplatas and so on.
right your right of course if the other guy has no expierance in your sport you'll win. Thats not even a debate. what you fail to grasp is that once the wrestler has 6 mounths expierance maybe less depending on who and how much they train your toast dude. This is not because of the greatness of wrestling but because all those things like body awareness and mat aweareness and hip movement and hip control and on and on that took you and most others 6 mounths or a year to get used too the wrestleers been doing his whole life plus there are a ton of moves and movements that cross through both sports. the simply fact is the wrestler is years ahead of you on the learning curve. Deal with it
Okay so a wrestler will have an easier time learning BJJ than the average Joe. I agree with that. But people are saying that a high level wrestler without BJJ experience would be able to beat a BJJ guy which is rediculious.
If you ever have a div 1 wrestler come to your school and you are an average two year blue belt be prepared for a beatin you will not soon forget. If he trains with your school for six months he will beat some of your purples. Nuf said
agree with this... they dont even have to be D1 ive seen very good wrestlers start training with submission and in 3 months they arent getting caught anymore and in 6 they are tapping most of the mid to lower belts... after a year they are giving the browns and blacks competitive rolls.
wrestlers have a special quality when it comes to fighting to the lest second and never quitting.
honestly every time i roll with a good wrestler regret not having done wrestling in school.
TheBulgarianAssassin - I got a question too for WRESTLENOW;
Last year (1st year of college), I saw that there was a 'Wrestling' class. So I signed up since it was an easy A and I was getting credit for it. I got to wrestle against the wrestlers and I have to say I sucked. Got taken down pretty easy but I felt like I could have submitted them fairly easily when they took me down, but once you're "pinned" you start over. And I was a blue belt at the time, not some high level BJJ guy by any means and definitely not good at wrestling. However, after class some wrestlers were trying to learn some jiu jitsu and was rolling. They were horrible. I even rolled with one of them after class, who was the same weigh tas me. I got taken down easy but then I submitted the guy 3 times, all within less than a minute. After the class was over, I decided not to join the wrestling team and to go back to buttscooting and doing jiu jitsu. Excellent decision imo.
So how come a BJJ blue belt was able to easily submit a college wrestler when taken down? Shouldn't a wrestling base be enough to defend triangles, escape armbars and such. Explain.
Bad idea... U said in it post u sucked at wrestleing. Just cuz ur jitz was good doesn't Make up for takedown defense and takedowns.. Come on. U can mix sports and only have ur rules. Imagine Id the wrestlers could ground n pound.. Well then u might not tap them
In a nogi bjj match with time limits and points? A dude with good wrestling training will hold his own against a blue belt. The wrestler will have better takedowns and could get a td and then play stall/avoid. First bjj tournament I went to, the dude who won intermediate nogi at one of the higher weights had,according to him, little bjj training but wrestled at some little college. He won all his matches on points.
MickColins - In a nogi bjj match with time limits and points? A dude with good wrestling training will hold his own against a blue belt. The wrestler will have better takedowns and could get a td and then play stall/avoid. First bjj tournament I went to, the dude who won intermediate nogi at one of the higher weights had,according to him, little bjj training but wrestled at some little college. He won all his matches on points.
That doesn't prove anything. Points are awarded for takedowns so a wrestler could potentially takedown their opponent and lay n pray to win on points. But there are also guys who have won intermediate no-gi by using only jiu jitsu and not using any wrestling.
Look at this year ADCC competitor list, how many of em are BJJ black belts and how many of them are just wrestlers.
" Points are awarded for takedowns so a wrestler could potentially takedown their opponent and lay n pray to win on points. "
That was pretty much my point. Tito Ortiz beat Comprido by getting points and stalling. In a BJJ/Sub Grappling match, a wrestler who knows the rules can exploit them. Most BJJ guys will go in with the goal of submitting their opponent. A wrestler goes in and will look to win by points. Different mindset.
MickColins - " Points are awarded for takedowns so a wrestler could potentially takedown their opponent and lay n pray to win on points. "
That was pretty much my point. Tito Ortiz beat Comprido by getting points and stalling. In a BJJ/Sub Grappling match, a wrestler who knows the rules can exploit them. Most BJJ guys will go in with the goal of submitting their opponent. A wrestler goes in and will look to win by points. Different mindset.
So if going against a wrestler, don't let em get the takedown. Pull guard and the wrestler is screwed basically.
