"THANKS for backing up almost everything i said in
my post about sambo that everyone tried to
debate(including the moderaters)! "
Oh Please...
somboplayer,
THANKS for backing up almost everything i said in my post about sambo that everyone tried to debate(including the moderaters)!
you seem like you really have a realistic view on the art.
I'm kinda late to this party, but let me throw my two
cents in. I used to say to that Sambo was just Judo with leglocks. Now this was just more than a year ago.
I disagreed with Scott and Todd Milhoan with passion.
But after more and more of what they taught I began to realize that they are right. There are many many techniques that are used in Sambo that you won't find
in the Judo Gokyo. In Sambo there are no concrete techniques. In Judo you learn set techniques to proceed
up the belt ranks. In Sambo there are no belt ranks. Like Todd Milhoan said before, having a black belt in Sambo is like saying I have a black belt in Boxing. Sambo draws its strategies not only from Judo but also
national wrestling styles of the former Soviet Union. So when Russian Sambist 1st entered International Judo
There strategies brought about Russian Judo being termed "unorthodox", "not classical", "untraditional" Judo. Because the Sambist brought over something different to the Judo World.
yeah, but those things are now part of judo =)
You won't find an 'exclusive' technique because both arts use whatever works optimally...they are continually developing. The biggest difference to me lies in the approach (technique vs. principle, and in the strategies/theories (judo says that guard is better but sambo says that straddle mount is better...ie. they disagree :o)
Since a Russian judoka would teach you with the principle approach and a Japanese sambist would use techniques, I'm thinking that the biggest difference lies in the strategies. Sambo prefers the top game. Judo prefers the guard, etc. The use of ranks is a cultural phenomenom to a degree (and Kano was an educator and felt it was good), but since judo (and sambo) is in so many countries, even that difference is disappearing...
Sothy, you are bringing me more and more up to date with the Judo World. I just want to touch on also the
idea of Sambo being a Leglock stlye. In the West when
Oleg Taktarov displayed "The Rolling Kneebar" was when
the status quo of Sambo being a leglock stlye. But alot
of people are still not aware prior to that the Russian
Sambist where known to the world as armlockers when they appeared on the world Judo mats. But Sambo is very very broad. For instance, one Sambo Coach maybe
has a knack for throwing but he wants his students to
become good on the ground. He may send some of his students to another Coach who has a knack for armlocks, then after that to another Coach who has a knack for leglocks. In the Former USSR certain Sambo
Clubs/Schools where known for they're specialties. Oleg
Taktarov stated this in Blackbelt magazine and also
Andrei Sosnovskikh told me this too. Andrei said his
Sambo Coach was great at throwing so his students became apt at throwing, but when he faced a someone from a club known for armlocks, he knew to keep his arms close to himself. So Sambo is very very broad and
not just one stop for leglocks.
LOL ....Tool!
for a sombo guy he sure knows his sambo =)
(I'm joking)
Watching a videotape does not an expert make. If you wanna base things off of video... I've got tapes in my collection of trips I've taken overseas to train... most of it looks NOTHING like "Judo with leglocks"
picture a sleeve and lapel grip.. one player reaches to attack the others legs, the other player proceeds to wrap his leg around his opponents arm, roll forward into what seems like a rolling kneebar, only to throw his opponent to his back with a bent armlock applied. If you can find me that in a Judo gokyonowaza, I'll be suprised.
Greco-Roman wrestlers are great upperbody throwers. In the 2000 olympics, some of the Olympic champions never scored a SINGLE point on their feet.. not one. They must really suck at takedown skills! OR maybe taking into consideration that they are against the BEST IN THE WORLD, they MIGHT have to use a degree of caution, and the window of opportunity might not be there... by trying to force the situation, you put yourself in a position to be scored upon. a 1-0 win is a one point asskicking. I beat you by 1pt, or I beat you by 12pts.. doesn't matter, I progress in the bracket, you do not.
get yourself a copy of "Pickups" and a copy of "Russian Judo" to get a slight idea of the different feel. Sambo caters to the individual.. you find an approach that works for you. Hell, I pulled off quite a few bodylifts en route to my Championship at the World Student Games in Moscow, in addition to leg submissions. A good coach will guide you to finding your own approach to your sport, be it on the mat, standing, etc.
Andrew Kaufman
Igor Ziniovev teaches in Brooklyn on Tues, Thurs, and Saturday at Tiger Martial Arts Academy. The address is 1726 Bath Ave Brooklyn, NY,
and the telephone number is 718/259-8822. I have never been to the class so I do not have personal information, but from what I hear he teaches judo, sambo and standup together. My work schedule is during evening hours so I have not been able to check out this class. Let me know what you think of it if you are able to make it to the class.
Zinoviev rocks!...I hope he returns to MMA oneday.
>it is strange how jkdboxing only has negative things to say about judo/sambo and yet still visits this Q&A...
FYI, i really like judo. im actually a sankyu.
for that stuf that ssonnen said..hey, i just call it like i see it.
the guys looking for a place to learnleg locks and im tellin him how it is. many people have the misconception that they need to go to a "sambo" school to learn leg locks when you can get proficient at them at renzo gracies.
the sambo guys ive trained with that called themselves champions had basic leg lock knowledge but VERY good judo throws.
there is a large misconception that sambo is all about leg locksd and just isnt..PERIOD. its more about throws. i think marketing against bjj in the US has made that misconception. not there isnt leg lock specialists in sambo but theres also throwing specialists in BJJ.
like i said, i call it like i see it. i speak the "non-pc" truth and people dont like it sometimes.
there r some cool stuff about judo on this forum but when i see stuff like this like to add my 2 cents (not always appreciated)
>Renzo's school is a fantastic place but $145 a month for 2x a week is a little steep.
just remember u get what u pay for
Bob Henry-
I really appreciate the information. Unfortunately I wrestle on Tuesdays and Thursdays nights. However I do agree with you, Zenoviev has a lot to offer, and is probably a great teacher.
Thanks again!
Gosh... it just never ends...
"FYI, i really like judo. im actually a sankyu."
Gee, that sure qualifies you as an expert on
these matters now doesn't it?
"for that stuf that ssonnen said..hey, i just call it like
i see it."
See above as to how much weight we should give
what you "see."
"the sambo guys ive trained with that called
themselves champions had basic leg lock
knowledge but VERY good judo throws. "
So we are to assume that your experience speaks
to the total experience out there? We know NOTHING of the "sombo" people you have been with. I know champions who won because they were Judoka/Wrestlers (ie Ron Tripp or Dan Severn) who really were not Sambo experts at all.
"there is a large misconception that sambo is all
about leg locksd and just isnt..PERIOD."
Well gee, that sure settles it! What are YOUR
qualifiations to speak to Sambo? The only
PERIOD is that you do not have the training or the
experience of a Scott or an Igor. So all we have is
your OPINION. Again, see above to see how I rank
that with Igor or Scott.
"i think marketing against bjj in the US has made
that misconception."
LOL! ROTGDFLMFAO!!!! Man, if that isn't the pot
calling the kettle black! When I see ads and
articals that trash BJJ/GJJ come even close to the
Gracie crap, I'll agree with you. Till then you might
what to avoid this issue.
"like i said, i call it like i see it. i speak the "non-pc"
truth and people dont like it sometimes."
No, you speak your opinion on how you feel about
GJJ and training there. We have read it before. It
has as much to do with truth as the other
statements we have had to refute over the years.
Your truth is just opinion, and in here, it isn't worth
much as your area of expertise is NOT judo or
sambo.
" but when i see stuff like this like to add my 2
cents (not always appreciated) "
When you try to pass of opinion or hype as "truth" it
never will be.
"just remember u get what u pay for "
And just remember sometimes you pay a lot more
for what you can get elsewhere for far less....
...thanks for sharing. However the question was where to find Sambo in NYC; not GJJ. So as such, you are totally off topic to this question.
"Which is why only the informed and experienced
should be responding to such questions (wasn't
that the regulation wisely set forth for Q&A's?) "
With all due respect; I have to disagree with my
learned and HIGHLY respected co-host in here.
Yes, some people are going to post as jerks; but
most don't. Some posted poorly in the past, then
changed and grew and I simply do not have the
words to express my admiration and respect for
him; YES Q-MAN I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU!!!! I bow
to you sir!
We can speak of others as well, hence the reason
I like it as it is.
If the cost for people like Q to grow as he has is to
read through and deal with the occasional post like
these; WE ARE GETTING OFF CHEAP.
Just my opinion......
Andy kaufman, please email me at gichen@aol.com I am a LEO in NYC.
Thanks Sothy i will look into it.
There is a Sambo teacher at Chau's. Go to www.chausmartialarts.com. They also have a Thai boxing teacher, kungfu, and a russian martial arts instructor.
Marcus
just go to renzos. you will learn leg locks and more there.
FYI
sambo doesnt always equal proficency at leg locks. thats a MMA urban legend. most high level sambo guys have very strong throws rather than leg locks.
i remember watching a tape of the "sambo world championships" thinking i was gonna see all these really cool leg locks. out of 2 hours of tape i think i saw like 3 leg lock attempts and 1 succesful leg lock. the rest looked EXACTLy like judo with more variations on the grips.
99% of sambo schools are basically judo without chokes and wearing shorts. oh yeah with some leg locks thrown in
There is a place in Astoria Queens that is called the Arsenal that supposedly teaches Russian Judo and Sambo. Also there is a school in Forest hills that teaches Sambo I hear the instructor is good. Follow the link at Scott Sonnon site.
The Arsenal teaches Judo, and Greco. I have a good feeling it is mob owned. Is the club in Forest Hills Spartak? I called them and they said they don't teach Sambo just Judo.
The Russian population in NY is so Big there must be somebody who teaches it.