"Then why did Josh use a basic bjj top game in his fight against Roger's?"<br /><br />I don't think you gave Josh's fight the analysis it deserved. In CACC wrestling there is an empahsis on grapevining, something that I don't see as much in BJJ. Josh didn't just mount Rogers he also grapevined him, a strategy which adds the crushing game to the pin. Josh's intent was to wear out Rogers from the top thru the crushing game. <br /><br />I was doing this type of crushing,pinning and grapevining and mounting in the early 80's. Before I ever heard of BJJ.
Paulson started Judo in the 70s. Paulson was WINNING in Shooto before UFC1. He studied under the Machados and Gracies before most people on this thread had ever heard of them (1989). Yet he still chose to explore, study and eventually teach Catch.
If only he was as smart as the jerkoffs on the Underground, he might have really learned that it'sall BJJ?
Wrestling is wrestling. Submission wrestling is as old as civilization. These styles are all just flavors of the oldest combat art known to man. Some things Judo got right, some things BJJ got right, some things are all Catch.
It's funny to watch the insecurity of the brazilian buttflop club, and this is coming from someone who was studying with the Gracies in 1993. Get your excuses ready, because Josh will be submitting many of your idols soon enough.
ReneH - "Then why did Josh use a basic bjj top game in his fight against Roger's?"<br /><br />I don't think you gave Josh's fight the analysis it deserved. In CACC wrestling there is an empahsis on grapevining, something that I don't see as much in BJJ. Josh didn't just mount Rogers he also grapevined him, a strategy which adds the crushing game to the pin. Josh's intent was to wear out Rogers from the top thru the crushing game. <br /><br />I was doing this type of crushing,pinning and grapevining and mounting in the early 80's. Before I ever heard of BJJ.
Bjj uses the hooks and pressure from top control too.
Show me where "catch" was doing
Kimora
Armbar
triangle
etc...
Before Jiu Jitsu / Judo / BJJ
Oh yeah, you can't.
CharlesLewis - Paulson started Judo in the 70s. Paulson was WINNING in Shooto before UFC1. He studied under the Machados and Gracies before most people on this thread had ever heard of them (1989). Yet he still chose to explore, study and eventually teach Catch.
If only he was as smart as the jerkoffs on the Underground, he might have really learned that it'sall BJJ?
Wrestling is wrestling. Submission wrestling is as old as civilization. These styles are all just flavors of the oldest combat art known to man. Some things Judo got right, some things BJJ got right, some things are all Catch.
It's funny to watch the insecurity of the brazilian buttflop club, and this is coming from someone who was studying with the Gracies in 1993. Get your excuses ready, because Josh will be submitting many of your idols soon enough.
Beautimous!!
No where is the damn tapping/disarm sparring footage you promised me???????? LOL
CharlesLewis - Paulson started Judo in the 70s. Paulson was WINNING in Shooto before UFC1. He studied under the Machados and Gracies before most people on this thread had ever heard of them (1989). Yet he still chose to explore, study and eventually teach Catch.exactly.
If only he was as smart as the jerkoffs on the Underground, he might have really learned that it'sall BJJ?
Wrestling is wrestling. Submission wrestling is as old as civilization. These styles are all just flavors of the oldest combat art known to man. Some things Judo got right, some things BJJ got right, some things are all Catch.
It's funny to watch the insecurity of the brazilian buttflop club, and this is coming from someone who was studying with the Gracies in 1993. Get your excuses ready, because Josh will be submitting many of your idols soon enough.
ttt for the War Master? C'mon Josh surely you're lurking about :)
FenceGrab - Show me where "catch" was doing
Kimora
Armbar
triangle
etc...
Before Jiu Jitsu / Judo / BJJ
Oh yeah, you can't.
"Bjj uses the hooks and pressure from top control too."
I am fully aware that it does.
FenceGrab - Show me where "catch" was doing
Kimora
Armbar
triangle
etc...
Before Jiu Jitsu / Judo / BJJ
Oh yeah, you can't.
GTFO!!
There are fucking Greek mosaics showing the triangle. There are written accounts of Greek wrestling describing, in detail, techniques like the rear naked choke. There are 500yr old etchings in old wrestling manuals showing armbars, hammerlocks, and toe holds, etc. Hell, there is even credible evidence to suggest that judo, and Kano himself, were directly influenced by western wrestling to the point that techniques were absorbed into curriculum that were brought by judoka like Maeda who'd been dispatched around the world to teach, compete and train. Even the Kodokan's loss to Tanabe & Co. from Fusen ryu(who had strong newaza, hence bjj's latching on to them as the source of its origins lol) corroborates this, as the period between the Kodokan's formation, win over the classical jujutsu schools in 1886, and the loss to Fusen ryu was something like 18-25yrs. More than enough time for Japan, who was friendly with Britain during those days, to open its borders and mind to western influence, including seafaring wrestlers who were undoubtedly in country in those days. I mean, shit, it was only something like 10yrs later that Ad Santel visited Japan and claimed the title of world judo champion after defeating the Kodokan's best. So, it's not hard to picture how/why styles like judo and Fusen ryu, which decended from samurai arts with aikido-like 'grappling, would suddenly develop 'wrestling' oriented takedowns, throws, holddowns, and submissions.
Gaspare - The way it was explained to me-Your definition of catch could very well be Carlson Gracis senior brand BJJ FYI..
BJJ- heavier focus on bottom game, plays more of the waiting game, uses more judo throws
Catch- heavier focus on top, more aggressive, different style of subs (neck cracks etc) wrestling style take downs .
I believe they focus more on worrying about grabbing the submission the position but maybe wrong on that.
In the end bjj, judo, jjj, ajj, gjj and catch are all IMO different/modified versions of one another
Hopefully Josh can come in here and clear things up in detail
Grappling is all gay because this silly style labelling is worse thann kung-fu and we all know how gay that is.
Fags.
"because this silly style labelling is worse thann kung-fu and we all know how gay that is."
Except for Mantis Style, of course. Thorny praying double pierce to the clavicle pits will sag a motherfucker with the quickness.
But then the Mantis community has its own Eddie Bravo's running around renaming classic moves by putting goofy comic book twists on them, calling themselves Mantissas, etc. Whole community is blown to SHIT because of this and I'm sick of it
Missing Glove Tape -CharlesLewis - Paulson started Judo in the 70s. Paulson was WINNING in Shooto before UFC1. He studied under the Machados and Gracies before most people on this thread had ever heard of them (1989). Yet he still chose to explore, study and eventually teach Catch.
If only he was as smart as the jerkoffs on the Underground, he might have really learned that it'sall BJJ?
Wrestling is wrestling. Submission wrestling is as old as civilization. These styles are all just flavors of the oldest combat art known to man. Some things Judo got right, some things BJJ got right, some things are all Catch.
It's funny to watch the insecurity of the brazilian buttflop club, and this is coming from someone who was studying with the Gracies in 1993. Get your excuses ready, because Josh will be submitting many of your idols soon enough.
Beautimous!!
No where is the damn tapping/disarm sparring footage you promised me???????? LOL
I wish we were doing more knife stuff these days, for some reason we have been doing nothing but stick, and some espada/dagga. Both of which i kinda suck at. We filmed some of the espada dagga stuff but I probably look like a retard. Last Thurs we did some kerambit, maybe this week i can strap on the gloves and go live with the training blades a bit. I will have to revisit that old thread I have honestly forgotten what the point was I was trying to support.
Ok. The ONLY person i've EVER seen where I said, wow his style looks totally different was prime Sak. Other than that, it all looks the same. And when Barnett fought Big Nog, he was taken down, he went to guard and went for a guillotine. Then he STAYED in guard for many minutes in that match. He had to. He didn't stay up on his elbows, or bridge on his neck cause he didnt have to. So Catch? Bjj? It's all grappling. His fight with Rogers looked EXACTLY like a thousand BJJ guys wouldve looked and have looked, cause they operate the same in most instances. If that had been prime Sak, the fight would've looked majorly different.
And btw: I saw recently a match between Josh and (for the love of me I forget, but it was someone GOOD..I want to say Barbosa...) where it went a full TEN minutes WITH a gi...and it was CLOSE. they initially gave Josh the win, but then changed their minds...
Lots of BJJ guys have Judo blackbelts, I guess that means they are judoka...
a hook is a hook... amirite?
Didnt catch get its start in carnivals and shit, eventually turning into pro wrasslin?
FenceGrab - Show me where "catch" was doing
Kimora
Armbar
triangle
etc...
Before Jiu Jitsu / Judo / BJJ
Oh yeah, you can't.
I see what you did there.
Josh Barnett is a wrestler who became a catch wrestler by going to train with Billy Robinson while in Japan. The same Billy Robinson who taught catch to Kazushi Sakuraba.
And here's another little known fact: Sakuraba first started training in catch with Billy when he was 12 years old.
If you want to learn more about catch - and get passed all the b.s. - then go to www.scientificwrestling.com and order the book entitled:
SAY UNCLE! (Catch-as-catch-can wrestling ands the roots of ultimate fighting, pro wrestling, & modern grappling)
Check out .15 - .18 of this vid from 1903 with something very much like a guard in play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VvsiDFLG_o
William Colosimo -FenceGrab - Show me where "catch" was doing
Kimora
Armbar
triangle
etc...
Before BJJ
Oh yeah, you can't.
sure you can.
and no, Im not going to bother digging out the proof to someone clueless.
You cut out JUDO, and JIU JITSU.
No, you can't.