technical problems with my previous post , here it is again
ausgepicht ,
Saying you got a BJJ blackbelt and then confusing everyone by also saying that you don't have training in BJJ ... that's the kind of stuff that makes everyone question what you say and your credentials.
This is typical with most catch wrestlers. Take for example , Melancon , uhmmm I mean , Melanson.
search neil melanson on google
Note that it STILL says Xtreme Couture - Neil Melanson Head Jiu-Jitsu Coach , even after Neil made the assertion that he is ACTUALLY a catch wrestler . Also remember that Neil himself said that he was a jiu jitsu expert before hand and that he actually trained in jiu jitsu.
His site mentions this correction in his bio.
"Neil Melanson is a Catch Wrestler, and leg lock and triangle specialist who trained under Gene Lebell, Gokor, and Karo Parisyan. In addition to being Parisyan’s grappling coach and training partner, and he trains day-to-day students and numerous professional fighters. "
Then right underneath that section - the training description - it says
"Our members here at Xtreme Couture know our head Jits guy (Neil Melanson) as a coach who knows the science of Jiu Jitsu.
Melanson dedicates his time to his students and constantly works on perfecting his teaching skills. Instead of simply focusing on how techniques are done, he also teaches why they work and how they fit into the bigger picture.
PUBLIC CLASSES TAUGHT:
• Jiu-Jitsu (Beginner , Intermediate, Advanced)
• Private Lessons
AMATEUR MMA TEAM COACH:
Neil currently trains and works with our amateur team - Advanced classes.
PRO MMA TEAM:
Neil helps fine tune pro MMA fighters like Randy Couture who continues to improve their skills and technique.
"
EVERYTHING taught in his gym is ACTUALLY JIU JITSU!
What the fuck is going on here? He calls himself a catch wrestler but he teaches Jiu Jitsu?
The way it was explained to me-
BJJ- heavier focus on bottom game, plays more of the waiting game, uses more judo throws
Catch- heavier focus on top, more aggressive, different style of subs (neck cracks etc) wrestling style take downs .
I believe they focus more on worrying about grabbing the submission the position but maybe wrong on that.
In the end bjj, judo, jjj, ajj, gjj and catch are all IMO different/modified versions of one another
Hopefully Josh can come in here and clear things up in detail 
Gaspare
Suppose bjj "focuses" on the guard and catch "focuses" on the top positions.
Then why did Josh use a basic bjj top game in his fight against Roger's?
Erik Paulson has been training Catch with Larry Hartsell and Yori Nakamura since the mid 1980's. Paulson ofcourse is also a BJJ blackbelt under Rigan Machado.
The mount is found in both BJJ and Catch. In Catch, its called top saddle position.
Barnett's trainers have been Billy Robinson, Matt Hume and Erik Paulson. All 3 of those men have a Catch base.
Barnett calls himself a Catch wrestler and has won grappling comps with neck cranks, leg locks and other "Catch style" submissions.
Catch Wrestling, as its been explained to me by someone who actually used to do it, is wrestling with submissions. Imagine folkstyle wrestling with subs and pins
Its whatever he wants to call it. Its just submission grappling like every other form. What Josh does looks just like Gracie 101 because there are only so many ways you can grab, takedown, and submit a human. Each person has their own way of applying the techniques and their own emphasis, but there are no secrets to catch that I can see, just like there are no secrets to BJJ or Judo. It's all based on anatomy....
I think when you watch the fights with Nogueira, the difference between his style and BJJ becomes evident.
BeerMuscles - Erik Paulson has been training Catch with Larry Hartsell and Yori Nakamura since the mid 1980's. Paulson ofcourse is also a BJJ blackbelt under Rigan Machado.
The mount is found in both BJJ and Catch. In Catch, its called top saddle position.
Barnett's trainers have been Billy Robinson, Matt Hume and Erik Paulson. All 3 of those men have a Catch base.
Barnett calls himself a Catch wrestler and has won grappling comps with neck cranks, leg locks and other "Catch style" submissions.
Catch Wrestling, as its been explained to me by someone who actually used to do it, is wrestling with submissions. Imagine folkstyle wrestling with subs and pins
What grappling competitions did Barnett win?
Wrestling with submissions , doesn't make much sense to me. I think that this will always be the weak point for catch wrestling
- wrestling isn't easy
- submissions aren't easy
Not many people will want to combine the two in the cage... we witnessed this with GSP against Hardy , GSP had several submission setups against Hardy but was smart and didn't spend too much time pushing for the submission , he knew that he might have to go five rounds , which is what actually happened.
Wrestling AND submissions isn't really feasible , especially if you're going to fight for five rounds.
eljamaiquino - Its whatever he wants to call it. Its just submission grappling like every other form. What Josh does looks just like Gracie 101 because there are only so many ways you can grab, takedown, and submit a human. Each person has their own way of applying the techniques and their own emphasis, but there are no secrets to catch that I can see, just like there are no secrets to BJJ or Judo. It's all based on anatomy....
didnt he win the no gi world championships and the gracie open like 2 years ago?
we should just call it submission grappling though.
ausgepicht - Is BJJ Judo because there's some Judo in it? Do people say Maia is a BJJer or his BJJ is influenced by wrestling when he shoots for a takedown. Stop the insanity please.
take away the rule sets and BJJ is Basically Just Judo.
eljamaiquino - i meant to quote GCT
Barnett won...
2009 no-gi worlds
2009 No-gi Gracie Nationals
2009 sub-X or some shit like that
Josh was using basic, albeit sloppy, BJJ top control.
Even the submission, the side arm triangle, he finished it fist in palm/ cup in saucer style like Helio taught it.
Calhoon- im not sure you understood me correctly, its all the same roots with differences in styles....like everyone im sure gross training plays a huge part in this.....
Its like saying JDS used a wrestling takedown against Carwin so hes a wrestler
I was talking about Barnetts fight lastnight either I was debating the differences between bjj and catch.
Cross*
Wasnt* talking about Barnetts fight
Sorry for all the typos guys
BeerMuscles - Barnett won...
2009 no-gi worlds
2009 No-gi Gracie Nationals
2009 sub-X or some shit like that
A little misleading to say he won anything since it was a team competition - Checkmat BJJ seems to have won in this case , but he did well with the 1 place in his group - again although not the black belt master division ... not exactly the best competition but pretty impressive.
I suspect the same kind of reasoning from you with the remaining results.
i cant believe the submitting of BRETT ROGERS actually warrants in depth analysis.
and happy fathers day
everything overlaps,it would be impossible for it not to. How many moves and transitions can there possibly be? To me when certain aspects of 1 art become the primary objective then you add the element of tweeking and using wrestling transitions then by natural order you have to call it something else
BJJ became something different from judo and BJJ guys defended that it was there own with there life. Now they are on the wrong side of the argument and they are using hypocrisy logic to call it BJJ
its comparible to the Eddie Bravo twister argument,it was a wrestling move but he used bjj transitions to set it up
this is basically the opposite scenario