Bas Rutten on elbows

Steve4192 - 
studiocamp - What about the stat with the ratio of ko's by elbow and cut stoppages? Thanks for that stat though.




How about these stats ...



Q: When was the last time there was a cut stoppage in the elbow-happy UFC, how was that cut caused, and how many fights have they held since that cut stoppage?



A: UFC 77 Belcher-Starnes fight, caused by a knee from the clinch, 133 consecutive fights since then without a cut stoppage.



Q: When was the last time a fight was stopped due to cuts from an elbow strike in the UFC?



A: UFC 61 Stevenson-Edwards fight. Over two years ago.



Q: When was the last time someone scored a (T)KO with elbow strikes in the UFC?



A: UFC 84 Kim-Tan fight. Less than two months ago.


+1 for actual logic/stats in this boring old argument



Guys in Pride would sit in guard for almost 10 minutes it seemed like, just tying up the opponent's wrist and trying to pull a hail mary sub



Crocop never took any damage from his guard in Pride, he'd just stall for a re-start



When he came to the UFC, GG almost KO'd him with elbows on the ground, and dazed him enough to KO him with a kick once they stood up



Watch Riggs/Groves to see what elbows on the ground can do.



MMA is about FIGHTING-- knees and elbows on the ground should both be allowed



Guys who pull guard or shoot and get stuffed should face the risk of damage/punishment for it



The action in the IFL on the ground was terrible without elbows, I can't find their finishing stats, but it didn't seem to open things up at all or allow more subs

The worst cut ever (in terms of size) was caused by a knee. Marvin Eastman vs Vitor Belfort.

The most dangerous cut ever (in terms of location) was caused by a punch. Randy Couture vs Vitor Belfort.

Furthermore; I firmly believe that a lack of elbows was one of the reasons that IFL failed.

It is incredibly easy to stall when in the clinch or on the ground if your opponent can't elbow. It made for some extremely boring fights.

 when i think of elbows, i think of pat smith

Elbows were the only reason anyone thought Bas won that fight against Randleman

I used to think like Bas, but the statistics have changed my mind.

Here's something to think about.

Recently there haven't been a number fights stopped for a cut from an elbow, but there have been so many fights where a cut from an elbow has become a factor because of the blood in a fighter's face and his need to defend his cut. Once you have to defend a cut on your face from opening up more it severely limits your ability in other aspects of the fight.

. Elbows only stop fights prematurely. How many elbows have ko'd someone in comparison to the number of cut stoppages?


 Look at BJ/Stevenson, The elbow didn't cause the fight to be stopped, and it didn't KO Stevenson, but it played a key role in the course of the fight in several other ways.



Keep the elbows.

Very interesting statistics, thanks for posting them. I thought to that elbows often cause ref stoppages, but obviously, its not really so. If someone gets cut during a fight, but its allowed to continue, well thats just part of the game. If the oponent scores a ko punch as a result from earlier having cut someone over the eye so they couldnt see it coming, well, thats a perfectly legit win.

Elbows is a part of fighting, and you should be able to defend against it, or pay the price. Same with knees on the ground, soccer kicks, etc. One thing i think can be argued, but is definitely subjective, is that the rules can make a fight exciting or it can make it boring. Whether it goes to decision or not. If a guy can shoot in, there should be an opportunity for the other guy to make him pay with a sprawl and knees if he fails at it. We need to see less "rules" when it comes to striking in the unified rules, and damn what people, who never liked the sport to begin with, think about it.

BeboSaab - The problem is we have a large group of fighters slashing at the eyebrow for the win nowadays.


If that is what they are doing then they are being terribly ineffective with it. The UFC hasn't had a cut stoppage due to elbow strikes in over TWO YEARS.

I also like the improved definition of the 12 to 6 elbow. That should open up the fighting a bit more, and we'll also see some more fights finished by the blunt force of a pointed elbow strike instead of slashing elbows that have a tendency to cut.

 I think the elbows vs knees on the ground is pretty retarded and you need both. Some Pride fights seemed more exciting on the ground because you could be attacked from all angles...like if a dude missed a sloppy shot, he could get kneed in the head, or north/south was a brutal position to be in in Pride. I think Bas should focus more on the positives of bringing back knees and not on banning elbows. As a fan, I still prefer the least rules as possible.

JackShrimp - 
Recently there haven't been a number fights stopped for a cut from an elbow, but there have been so many fights where a cut from an elbow has become a factor because of the blood in a fighter's face and his need to defend his cut. Once you have to defend a cut on your face from opening up more it severely limits your ability in other aspects of the fight.


You know what else limits a your ability to fight?

Barely being able to walk due to leg kicks, having your eye swollen shut by repeated jabs, and having your breathing impaired by a broken nose or a cracked rib.

They should ban kicking & punching too.

Chimono, if you had bothered reading the post I asked what the stat was or if anybody knew it? If I had the stat why would I have asked for it?

If the new rules for elbows result in ko's I am all for them. I just don't like fights stopped due to cuts, some of you apparently do.

Go have someone slice up your face or head with elbow strikes and tell me that's not a "real" way of affecting and possibly stopping a fight. We can't get so far detached from realism in MMA, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the sport. Cut stoppages are valid stoppages

How the hell is a cut stoppage realistic?

Diego stole my name - How the hell is a cut stoppage realistic?


TWO YEARS!!!!!!!

Quit bitching about cut stoppages due to elbows. Are you seriously that worked up about something that hasn't happened in two years?

Why not get worked up about something that happens more frequently, like self-KO's off a slam? Damnit! Slams should not be allowed because they lead to self-KO's.

Are you on hallucinogenic drugs? Where have i bitched about cut stoppages. I was responding to a post saying cut stoppages are realistic

I think there is one fundamental thing missing from the no elbows argument, position. Elbows from top position allow you to throw slicing blows with very little risk of losing your position.

I think this extremely limits the bottom game along with the cage. There is almost zero risk of losing top position throwing a 6-12 inch elbow. In a ring i don't think i would be against elbows on the ground. You can't use a cage to pin your opponent and throw 12 inch elbows.

the same can be said about slicing punches from the top position. It's part of the fight game. if you don't like it start supporting IFL instead.