studiocamp - What about the stat with the ratio of ko's by elbow and cut stoppages? Thanks for that stat though.
How about these stats ...
Q: When was the last time there was a cut stoppage in the elbow-happy UFC, how was that cut caused, and how many fights have they held since that cut stoppage?
A: UFC 77 Belcher-Starnes fight, caused by a knee from the clinch, 133 consecutive fights since then without a cut stoppage.
Q: When was the last time a fight was stopped due to cuts from an elbow strike in the UFC?
A: UFC 61 Stevenson-Edwards fight. Over two years ago.
Q: When was the last time someone scored a (T)KO with elbow strikes in the UFC?
A: UFC 84 Kim-Tan fight. Less than two months ago.
+1 for actual logic/stats in this boring old argument
Guys in Pride would sit in guard for almost 10 minutes it seemed like, just tying up the opponent's wrist and trying to pull a hail mary sub
Crocop never took any damage from his guard in Pride, he'd just stall for a re-start
When he came to the UFC, GG almost KO'd him with elbows on the ground, and dazed him enough to KO him with a kick once they stood up
Watch Riggs/Groves to see what elbows on the ground can do.
MMA is about FIGHTING-- knees and elbows on the ground should both be allowed
Guys who pull guard or shoot and get stuffed should face the risk of damage/punishment for it
The action in the IFL on the ground was terrible without elbows, I can't find their finishing stats, but it didn't seem to open things up at all or allow more subs
Recently there haven't been a number fights stopped for a cut from an elbow, but there have been so many fights where a cut from an elbow has become a factor because of the blood in a fighter's face and his need to defend his cut. Once you have to defend a cut on your face from opening up more it severely limits your ability in other aspects of the fight.
. Elbows only stop fights prematurely. How many elbows have ko'd someone in comparison to the number of cut stoppages?
Look at BJ/Stevenson, The elbow didn't cause the fight to be stopped, and it didn't KO Stevenson, but it played a key role in the course of the fight in several other ways.
Very interesting statistics, thanks for posting them. I thought to that elbows often cause ref stoppages, but obviously, its not really so. If someone gets cut during a fight, but its allowed to continue, well thats just part of the game. If the oponent scores a ko punch as a result from earlier having cut someone over the eye so they couldnt see it coming, well, thats a perfectly legit win.
Elbows is a part of fighting, and you should be able to defend against it, or pay the price. Same with knees on the ground, soccer kicks, etc. One thing i think can be argued, but is definitely subjective, is that the rules can make a fight exciting or it can make it boring. Whether it goes to decision or not. If a guy can shoot in, there should be an opportunity for the other guy to make him pay with a sprawl and knees if he fails at it. We need to see less "rules" when it comes to striking in the unified rules, and damn what people, who never liked the sport to begin with, think about it.
BeboSaab - The problem is we have a large group of fighters slashing at the eyebrow for the win nowadays.
If that is what they are doing then they are being terribly ineffective with it. The UFC hasn't had a cut stoppage due to elbow strikes in over TWO YEARS.
I also like the improved definition of the 12 to 6 elbow. That should open up the fighting a bit more, and we'll also see some more fights finished by the blunt force of a pointed elbow strike instead of slashing elbows that have a tendency to cut.
JackShrimp - Recently there haven't been a number fights stopped for a cut from an elbow, but there have been so many fights where a cut from an elbow has become a factor because of the blood in a fighter's face and his need to defend his cut. Once you have to defend a cut on your face from opening up more it severely limits your ability in other aspects of the fight.
You know what else limits a your ability to fight?
Barely being able to walk due to leg kicks, having your eye swollen shut by repeated jabs, and having your breathing impaired by a broken nose or a cracked rib.
Go have someone slice up your face or head with elbow strikes and tell me that's not a "real" way of affecting and possibly stopping a fight. We can't get so far detached from realism in MMA, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the sport. Cut stoppages are valid stoppages
Diego stole my name - How the hell is a cut stoppage realistic?
TWO YEARS!!!!!!!
Quit bitching about cut stoppages due to elbows. Are you seriously that worked up about something that hasn't happened in two years?
Why not get worked up about something that happens more frequently, like self-KO's off a slam? Damnit! Slams should not be allowed because they lead to self-KO's.
I think there is one fundamental thing missing from the no elbows argument, position. Elbows from top position allow you to throw slicing blows with very little risk of losing your position.
I think this extremely limits the bottom game along with the cage. There is almost zero risk of losing top position throwing a 6-12 inch elbow. In a ring i don't think i would be against elbows on the ground. You can't use a cage to pin your opponent and throw 12 inch elbows.