Thacommish - The equivalent argument you are making for viacom is like telling zuffa to pay fighters with station casino money. Its not a well thought out idea.
Uh... Actually zuffa did use that model for many years while they bled cash out of their own pockets trying to make the company profitable.....
The way I see it Bellator exploits the fact that they're the "minor league" of MMA. They run a business model that has no intention of losing money in an attempt to grow and compete with the UFC. They ignore the infancy/ growth phases of most businesses where you may not make a profit from day one. As many on here have conceded... Viacom as a public company isn't going to pay fighters amounts that will hurt their bottom line.
The UFC took tons of risks along the way to become what they are today. While I do understand the cry for higher fighter pay now that they've established a profitable business, I think it's crap that Bellator gets a complete pass for taking very little risk and paying their fighters only enough to keep their numbers in the black from the get-go.
Thacommish - The equivalent argument you are making for viacom is like telling zuffa to pay fighters with station casino money. Its not a well thought out idea.
Uh... Actually zuffa did use that model for many years while they bled cash out of their own pockets trying to make the company profitable.....
The way I see it Bellator exploits the fact that they're the "minor league" of MMA. They run a business model that has no intention of losing money in an attempt to grow and compete with the UFC. They ignore the infancy/ growth phases of most businesses where you may not make a profit from day one. As many on here have conceded... Viacom as a public company isn't going to pay fighters amounts that will hurt their bottom line.
The UFC took tons of risks along the way to become what they are today. While I do understand the cry for higher fighter pay now that they've established a profitable business, I think it's crap that Bellator gets a complete pass for taking very little risk and paying their fighters only enough to keep their numbers in the black from the get-go.
Thats what a business owner should do, its called investing. To pretend like they did something altruistic or deserve not to have any criticism ever again because they had to take a risk in investing in the company early on is ridiculous.
Exactly! And the UFC did invest and lost their ass for years. You're totally missing the point... Viacom???? They're already an established monstrous public entity. So they get a pass for treating their pet Bellator as new profit segment X. They effectively are taking very little risk by piggybacking off the work/growth of the UFC. Where is their true risk/investment??? It sure as shit isn't going into their fighter pay model. In fact, I have no clue what their model is. Last night it appears to have been overpay the shit out of past their prime ex UFC fighters and pay your home grown talent like fast food workers.
rampage281 - Phisher learn how to read and comprehend buddy. I never said that! Onto some Salaries... Tito-300k Bonnar-100k Brooks-62k(31 and 31) Chandler-25k Melvin-10k King Mo-10k Nam Phan-$5,600
They should have given a huge portion of the main event money to the rest of that card. That fight was a shot show. The circus around it was an even bigger shit show.
Thacommish - The fact still remains ninja, Nobody on here was ever saying "zuffa should pay with station casinos" That argument isnt and shouldnt be made by anyone other than the owners. Its up to them if they want to risk whatever investing whatever, not something the fans should ever expect.
I understand that commish. But the UFC gets beat like a red headed step child for their current pay structure. But conveniently none of those bashers seem to remember all the years the UFC bled money. That was a huge risk and the payoff was enormous for them as a company AND.... MMA fans around the world.
Meanwhile Bellator takes almost no shit for their fighter pay and they've taken minimal risk compared to UFC. In fact they've tapped into the very market/audience created by the UFC's investments. But they're OK just making a dollar without any sacrifices. But the UFC should limit their profit margins for the goodwill of fighter pay....
Thacommish - The equivalent argument you are making for viacom is like telling zuffa to pay fighters with station casino money. Its not a well thought out idea.
Uh... Actually zuffa did use that model for many years while they bled cash out of their own pockets trying to make the company profitable.....
The way I see it Bellator exploits the fact that they're the "minor league" of MMA. They run a business model that has no intention of losing money in an attempt to grow and compete with the UFC. They ignore the infancy/ growth phases of most businesses where you may not make a profit from day one. As many on here have conceded... Viacom as a public company isn't going to pay fighters amounts that will hurt their bottom line.
The UFC took tons of risks along the way to become what they are today. While I do understand the cry for higher fighter pay now that they've established a profitable business, I think it's crap that Bellator gets a complete pass for taking very little risk and paying their fighters only enough to keep their numbers in the black from the get-go.
Thats what a business owner should do, its called investing. To pretend like they did something altruistic or deserve not to have any criticism ever again because they had to take a risk in investing in the company early on is ridiculous.
Exactly! And the UFC did invest and lost their ass for years. You're totally missing the point... Viacom???? They're already an established monstrous public entity. So they get a pass for treating their pet Bellator as new profit segment X. They effectively are taking very little risk by piggybacking off the work/growth of the UFC. Where is their true risk/investment??? It sure as shit isn't going into their fighter pay model. In fact, I have no clue what their model is. Last night it appears to have been overpay the shit out of past their prime ex UFC fighters and pay your home grown talent like fast food workers.
Nobody should be saying "fighters deserve some of that station casino money"
Just liek nobody should be saying "give them that viacom money"
It should be based on a % of the revenue.
I have to give you credit Thacommish on your commitment, even if it's to a failing argument.
I'm sure you're a good dude, but you have to admit that wnmma has a pretty damn good point, right?
Thacommish - The equivalent argument you are making for viacom is like telling zuffa to pay fighters with station casino money. Its not a well thought out idea.
Uh... Actually zuffa did use that model for many years while they bled cash out of their own pockets trying to make the company profitable.....
The way I see it Bellator exploits the fact that they're the "minor league" of MMA. They run a business model that has no intention of losing money in an attempt to grow and compete with the UFC. They ignore the infancy/ growth phases of most businesses where you may not make a profit from day one. As many on here have conceded... Viacom as a public company isn't going to pay fighters amounts that will hurt their bottom line.
The UFC took tons of risks along the way to become what they are today. While I do understand the cry for higher fighter pay now that they've established a profitable business, I think it's crap that Bellator gets a complete pass for taking very little risk and paying their fighters only enough to keep their numbers in the black from the get-go.
Thats what a business owner should do, its called investing. To pretend like they did something altruistic or deserve not to have any criticism ever again because they had to take a risk in investing in the company early on is ridiculous.
Exactly! And the UFC did invest and lost their ass for years. You're totally missing the point... Viacom???? They're already an established monstrous public entity. So they get a pass for treating their pet Bellator as new profit segment X. They effectively are taking very little risk by piggybacking off the work/growth of the UFC. Where is their true risk/investment??? It sure as shit isn't going into their fighter pay model. In fact, I have no clue what their model is. Last night it appears to have been overpay the shit out of past their prime ex UFC fighters and pay your home grown talent like fast food workers.
Nobody should be saying "fighters deserve some of that station casino money"
Just liek nobody should be saying "give them that viacom money"
It should be based on a % of the revenue.
So what should the UFC have been paying fighters up until about 6-7 years ago when their were NO profits. Should the fighters have been paying the UFC? Again, you're missing that element of risk and losses the UFC undertook that never gets factored back into their modern day annual profits... Some of those profits are paying back their near decade of losses.
Thacommish - The fact still remains ninja, Nobody on here was ever saying "zuffa should pay with station casinos" That argument isnt and shouldnt be made by anyone other than the owners. Its up to them if they want to risk whatever investing whatever, not something the fans should ever expect.
I understand that commish. But the UFC gets beat like a red headed step child for their current pay structure. But conveniently none of those bashers seem to remember all the years the UFC bled money. That was a huge risk and the payoff was enormous for them as a company AND.... MMA fans around the world.
Meanwhile Bellator takes almost no shit for their fighter pay and they've taken minimal risk compared to UFC. In fact they've tapped into the very market/audience created by the UFC's investments. But they're OK just making a dollar without any sacrifices. But the UFC should limit their profit margins for the goodwill of fighter pay....
"But the UFC gets beat like a red headed step child for their CURRENT pay structure. But conveniently none of those bashers seem to remember all the years the UFC bled money. "
Well maybe because they are talking about the CURRENT pay structure, and you keep bringing up years past like you are making a point of it (you are not)
So past losses shouldn't be applied against current profits????? If I make $100M this year, but lost $200M over the past 7 years, are you suggesting it's my obligation to pay fighters a nice percent of revenue strictly based upon my one profitable year???
whooleeo - Idk if people realize this but, bmma doesnt bring nearly as much money as the ufc, instead of looking at simple numbers, people shooks look at how much the org brings in and how much they distribute to the fighters, thats the real way to measure it, u cant give out more than u have for long or else youll go under, idk how current this is but i read that the ufc pays out around 7 precent (no source)of how much they bring in, idk what bellator numbers look like but id bet serious cash that its more than the ufc, percentage wise of course.
Viacom brings in billions a year. They can afford to pay their fighters a minimum of $8k-$10k a fight. Paying fighters less than Zuffa does (let's be honest, there's no way Zuffa is as loaded as Viacom) also drives down the asking price for fighters trying to come up.
Viacom needs to throw money towards the fighters to put pressure on Zuffa business wise.
Viacom wouldn't be a successful business if it let companies under its umbrella dip into the Viacom cookie pot just to make sure fighter pay is fair, despite its owners bellator has to be run as a business. Not saying that I agree with the figures but you can't think well Viacom will subsidise everything because their rich, not how business works
Thacommish - The fact still remains ninja, Nobody on here was ever saying "zuffa should pay with station casinos" That argument isnt and shouldnt be made by anyone other than the owners. Its up to them if they want to risk whatever investing whatever, not something the fans should ever expect.
I understand that commish. But the UFC gets beat like a red headed step child for their current pay structure. But conveniently none of those bashers seem to remember all the years the UFC bled money. That was a huge risk and the payoff was enormous for them as a company AND.... MMA fans around the world.
Meanwhile Bellator takes almost no shit for their fighter pay and they've taken minimal risk compared to UFC. In fact they've tapped into the very market/audience created by the UFC's investments. But they're OK just making a dollar without any sacrifices. But the UFC should limit their profit margins for the goodwill of fighter pay....
"But the UFC gets beat like a red headed step child for their CURRENT pay structure. But conveniently none of those bashers seem to remember all the years the UFC bled money. "
Well maybe because they are talking about the CURRENT pay structure, and you keep bringing up years past like you are making a point of it (you are not)
I give you props for your spirit and attempts of winning this discussion but the geek is right, wnmma is kicking your ass. Bottom line is regardless if it's Bellator or the UFC fighters need to be paid more.
Thacommish - Like they havnt seen the fucking fruits of the labor come in yet? lol
Assumptions based on no facts at all. Why don't you try to give some facts based on all the vitriol your spewing? Maybe passed losses vs present gains? Do you have any facts or are your just spouting your own assumptions? Just curious as when someone acts as angry as you do they better have some facts to back themselves up
Thacommish - The fact still remains ninja, Nobody on here was ever saying "zuffa should pay with station casinos" That argument isnt and shouldnt be made by anyone other than the owners. Its up to them if they want to risk whatever investing whatever, not something the fans should ever expect.
I understand that commish. But the UFC gets beat like a red headed step child for their current pay structure. But conveniently none of those bashers seem to remember all the years the UFC bled money. That was a huge risk and the payoff was enormous for them as a company AND.... MMA fans around the world.
Meanwhile Bellator takes almost no shit for their fighter pay and they've taken minimal risk compared to UFC. In fact they've tapped into the very market/audience created by the UFC's investments. But they're OK just making a dollar without any sacrifices. But the UFC should limit their profit margins for the goodwill of fighter pay....
"But the UFC gets beat like a red headed step child for their CURRENT pay structure. But conveniently none of those bashers seem to remember all the years the UFC bled money. "
Well maybe because they are talking about the CURRENT pay structure, and you keep bringing up years past like you are making a point of it (you are not)
So past losses shouldn't be applied against current profits????? If I make $100M this year, but lost $200M over the past 7 years, are you suggesting it's my obligation to pay fighters a nice percent of revenue strictly based upon my one profitable year???
Are you trying to paint the picture like the fertittas and dana white are still struggling to recoup that investment?
Are you a fucking clown?
You totally took a sideway argument with that response and..... went to the well with the crafty "fucking clown" retort. You win. I can't compete with that level of debate.
Thacommish - Like they havnt seen the fucking fruits of the labor come in yet? lol
Assumptions based on no facts at all. Why don't you try to give some facts based on all the vitriol your spewing? Maybe passed losses vs present gains? Do you have any facts or are your just spouting your own assumptions? Just curious as when someone acts as angry as you do they better have some facts to back themselves up
That's what I figured, you have no numbers or facts at all, your spewing garbage that sounds good with nothing to back you up. If you can't admit all fighters need to be paid better and you can't admit one org. Pay structure is as bad as the other than just stop. Your arguments are just getting sad.
I'm not excusing the UFC. In fact I've said they should pay everyone more, especially the lower tier fighters. How come every post from Thacommish on here has been so one sided in favor of Bellator?
rampage281 - I'm not excusing the UFC. In fact I've said they should pay everyone more, especially the lower tier fighters. How come every post from Thacommish on here has been so one sided in favor of Bellator?
Like my last post where i said
"Not how well bellator pays its fighters. I dont think they pay their fighters well at all, "
Thats really one sided.
That's the whole point bro, no one is saying they should pay as much as the UFC, only that 1,500 is crazy and way underpaid so it shouldn't only be the UFC catching flack here, how hard is that for you to admit?
