mongo54 - towel doesn't remove all the grease, kizer himself said that.
Irrelevant. Grease is omnipresent in every fight, on the face and bodies of both fighters. Wiping off fighters with a towel is the resolution of the matter per the rules. Just like it was in the Silva-Leites fight.
Beyond that, it is well known that a towel doesn't work. For many years in japan it was common for american fighters to grease their ankles and behind thiers ears to aviod submissions. Vasoline is applied and wiped of, leaving some in the pores of the skin that release when sweating.
More red herrings and irrelevant arguments. Vaseline is used in fights. Guys get slippery. Both of them.
I am not sure what has you confused regarding my statements about the ultimate outcome, but cheating is cheating. Why do positive drug tests result in suspensions and and No Contest rulings?
Nothing is confusing about your statements, they're just either uninformed, incomplete, or simply irrelevant. Perhaps you can reconcile your wishes with actual facts, but it's doubtful.
The fact that grease was rubbed on GSP's body that could not be removed with a towel IS relevant. That is a fact. I think GSP kicks his ass anyway, but it IS relevant and illegal. I wish Pen would just let it die as well, but GSP's corner should have had to pay some sort of consequence, however minor and symbolic.
bhamill - The fact that grease was rubbed on GSP's body that could not be removed with a towel IS relevant. That is a fact. I think GSP kicks his ass anyway, but it IS relevant and illegal. I wish Pen would just let it die as well, but GSP's corner should have had to pay some sort of consequence, however minor and symbolic.
Wrong on all accounts. There are no facts. Also full of exaggerations.
bhamill - The fact that grease was rubbed on GSP's body that could not be removed with a towel IS relevant. That is a fact. I think GSP kicks his ass anyway, but it IS relevant and illegal. I wish Pen would just let it die as well, but GSP's corner should have had to pay some sort of consequence, however minor and symbolic.
And I'm sure you're crusading for Anderson Silva to pay consequences as well, even though Yves Lavigne toweling off Silva's grease was also deemed the correct resolution of the matter per the rules.
Grease is everywhere in a fight. Fighters are toweled off, and the fight continues. Only for Penn and his whiny legion of religious followers is this an issue.
Ausg, NO grease was rubbed on GSP? That's NOT illegal? It COULD be removed with a towel? (after he had fought illegally greased for a round) Its not wrong on ANY account actually. You trolling me or do you also believe GSP WOULDN'T have kicked BJs ass anyway since that's one account in there as well... LOL.
The fact lost on the religious cult is that the amount of Vaseline we are talking about is an oil spill to them. Their tiny brains can't comprehend actual facts and they prefer faith based "accuracy". In their minds, a 55 gallon drum of Vaseline was on the back of the cornerman's hand and he wiped it's entire contents on GSP's back. For weeks seagulls, penguins, and seals were found on GSPs back.
They are grasping at straws, because the tiny amount had NOTHING to do with the outcome. Even IF it was a bucket of vaseline, it wouldn't have mattered, because BJ wasn't getting a submission from his back, and GSP wasn't getting submitted in BJ's guard. Neither has EVER happened. There's no precedent for it.
Just admit that what we have here is a religious cult following whose leader has been exposed. Brazilian Jonestown.
bhamill - Ausg, NO grease was rubbed on GSP? That's NOT illegal? It COULD be removed with a towel? (after he had fought illegally greased for a round) Its not wrong on ANY account actually. You trolling me or do you also believe GSP WOULDN'T have kicked BJs ass anyway since that's one account in there as well... LOL.
Vaseline is NOT illegal. Read the rules for the first time, man. A dime sized amount of vaseline can be wiped enough so as to be a NON-FACTOR and you know this.
"And I'm sure you're crusading for Anderson Silva to pay consequences as well, even though Yves Lavigne toweling off Silva's grease was also deemed the correct resolution of the matter per the rules.
Grease is everywhere in a fight. Fighters are toweled off, and the fight continues. Only for Penn and his whiny legion of religious followers is this an issue."
Actually I'm not crusading for anything, I've said I wish Pen would drop it two posts above yours... but your position of "its not illegal since some people get away with it" is totally void of logic.
Grease gets where it gets, but its illegal to apply it to the body. Not only was it applied to GSP's body but he fought that way untoweled for a round. As I said I think GSP kicks his ass anyway, but that does not make it any less illegal.
"Vaseline is NOT illegal. Read the rules for the first time, man. A dime sized amount of vaseline can be wiped enough so as to be a NON-FACTOR and you know this.
Read the rules."
LOL. Come on. This again? Kizer came right on this forum and said the fighters and corners were told explicitly that any grease applied to the body is illegal. The rule says "excess to the face or body," the corners were told ANY to the body was considered excessive. And you know this already.
And my argument is not at all that its the reason Pen lost so drop the factor/non factor straw man. Something isn't considered illegal just for effecting the outcome.
Say someone had removed padding from Penn's gloves. He comes out and takes down Stevenson and chokes him out without throwing a punch. The NSAC then discovers the altered gloves, that's not cheating and should just be ignored?
No, any EXCESSIVE grease. You even say it in your second sentence. You are playing with words, man. It's all moot, since the vaseline was a non-issue in the outcome in this fight. If there was a full can of Vaseline n GSP's back, the outcome would have been the same.
Ausgepicht - No, any EXCESSIVE grease. You even say it in your second sentence. You are playing with words, man. It's all moot, since the vaseline was a non-issue in the outcome in this fight. If there was a full can of Vaseline n GSP's back, the outcome would have been the same.
Do you really only read the parts of my posts that support your argument?
According to Kieth Kizer, the head of the NSAC, THE FIGHTERS AND THEIR CORNERS WERE EXPLICITLY TOLD THAT ANY GREASE APPLIED TO THE BODY WAS EXCESSIVE. There maybe its noticeable now. LOL. I still think you are trolling me but whatever, I'm a little bored.
And NO the outcome would not have been the same IMO, GSP probably would have finished Penn in the first round in that case. LOL.
mongo54 - no matter what you think about the grease incident, georges was caught red handed during the fight. the fight should have been immediately stopped. there was no way the vaselin could be removed in the ring.
so... it doesnt matter that the outcome would have been the same, but kizer personally catching the corner either intentionally or unintentionally applying grease and not taking action is inexcusable.
We should have stopped the Silva Leites fight then too. We saw Silva wipe grease on himself.
Ausgepicht - No, any EXCESSIVE grease. You even say it in your second sentence. You are playing with words, man. It's all moot, since the vaseline was a non-issue in the outcome in this fight. If there was a full can of Vaseline n GSP's back, the outcome would have been the same.
Do you really only read the parts of my posts that support your argument?
According to Kieth Kizer, the head of the NSAC, THE FIGHTERS AND THEIR CORNERS WERE EXPLICITLY TOLD THAT ANY GREASE APPLIED TO THE BODY WAS EXCESSIVE. There maybe its noticeable now. LOL. I still think you are trolling me but whatever, I'm a little bored.
And NO the outcome would not have been the same IMO, GSP probably would have finished Penn in the first round in that case. LOL.
Keep fighting the good fight man. Whatever floats your boat.
Oh, and it's not BJ's fault he loses to Kenflo either. It's because of his emotional investment in lubrigate that he didn't have the time or energy to train properly, and Kenflo probably cheated. How? Don't worry, BJ and his nuthuggers will think of something.
"We should have stopped the Silva Leites fight then too. We saw Silva wipe grease on himself."
I didn't know till afterward but right is right. What does this have to do with GSP or Penn though?
"Keep fighting the good fight man. Whatever floats your boat.
Oh, and it's not BJ's fault he loses to Kenflo either. It's because of his emotional investment in lubrigate that he didn't have the time or energy to train properly, and Kenflo probably cheated. How? Don't worry, BJ and his nuthuggers will think of something."
LOL. Learn to read you ignorant ass. I've said repeatedly that Penn would have lost anyway. But i do love your logic that if it doesn't effect the result of the fight its not illegal. Brilliant.
bhamill - Actually I'm not crusading for anything,
Then I'm sure it's just an amazing coincidence that you only comment on wanting punishment when it comes to GSP-Penn, and not Silva-Leites, Silva-Franklin 2, Hughes-Alves, etc. Coincidence, or a transparent agenda.
Grease gets where it gets, but its illegal to apply it to the body. Not only was it applied to GSP's body but he fought that way untoweled for a round. As I said I think GSP kicks his ass anyway, but that does not make it any less illegal.
That may be true if it were purposefully applied to the body, not a miniscule amount accidentally transferred to the body after legally greasing up the eyebrows and cheekbones. There's that pesky issue of intent, and the fact that the result was no different than any other transfer that occurs during a fight in terms of affect or practicality.
Hardcharger - Then I'm sure it's just an amazing coincidence that you only comment on wanting punishment when it comes to GSP-Penn, and not Silva-Leites, Silva-Franklin 2, Hughes-Alves, etc. Coincidence, or a transparent agenda.
Its a thread about Penn pursuing his case, why would I post about any other wrongdoing? You ask about Silva I say sure, do what is right. What agenda is there? And as far as punishment, I would have been satisfied with GSPs corner being publicly reprimanded and it left at that. In no way did I want to see anyone get suspended or have anything overturned. My posts from the very first day have reflected that.
That may be true if it were purposefully applied to the body, not a miniscule amount accidentally transferred to the body after legally greasing up the eyebrows and cheekbones. There's that pesky issue of intent, and the fact that the result was no different than any other transfer that occurs during a fight in terms of affect or practicality.
The rules don't speak to intent specifically because it is so "pesky". No one but Phil Nurse knows what his intent was. Regardless the rule on greasing does not speak to intent, so why bring it up? If someone says they accidentally ingested steroids we should just say "Okay, as long as it was an accident..."? And as far as it being minuscule in your opinion, that's well and good, but it was explicitly stated that ANY grease applied to the body was excessive and illegal.
Ausgepicht - The fact lost on the religious cult is that the amount of Vaseline we are talking about is an oil spill to them. Their tiny brains can't comprehend actual facts and they prefer faith based "accuracy". In their minds, a 55 gallon drum of Vaseline was on the back of the cornerman's hand and he wiped it's entire contents on GSP's back. For weeks seagulls, penguins, and seals were found on GSPs back.
They are grasping at straws, because the tiny amount had NOTHING to do with the outcome. Even IF it was a bucket of vaseline, it wouldn't have mattered, because BJ wasn't getting a submission from his back, and GSP wasn't getting submitted in BJ's guard. Neither has EVER happened. There's no precedent for it.
Just admit that what we have here is a religious cult following whose leader has been exposed. Brazilian Jonestown.
LOl totally fucking false. youre NO better than all of BJ's nuthuggers, just the exact opposite.