sharp1 - if bjj is not a fight than boxing is definitely not a fight
a pure boxer would lose to a pure bjj guy in a real fight, so.....
I disagree. What do you mean by "real fight"??
People think that just because Royce walked through a bunch of tough man contest winners that anybody with a good double leg is just going to stroll up and take the fight to the ground without any consequence.
At best I'd say it's even money. What happens if the boxer lands a hard straight right directly on the bridge of the nose against a sport grappler that's never really been hit. Do you think he's just going to shake his head and go "oh man I got hit, that sucks" and continue forward with his attack? Or do you think the initial shock of getting blasted in the nose and seeing stars might open him up for a combination that's going to flatten him?? Any sport grappler that enters MMA has to train some stand up if nothing more then for learning how to react when getting hit.
If I had to take a Golden Gloves boxer who's never trained a day of grappling in his life against a Mundials champion who's never taken or thrown a real punch in his life in a REAL FIGHT I'm taking the boxer every time.
Wow....so the sport BJJ has never taken a punch in his life ? never had a streetfight ? Is not durable ?
The Golden Gloves boxer ? how ell does he grapple ? how does he deal w/ a feint, level change, and fast low shoot or upper body clinch throw ?
what if the BJJ guy is really a non sport Gracie Jiu jitsu guy who has trained w/ strikes in mind since day one and is all about getting the clinch/throw/takedown off of the strikes ?
Have you completely missed out on the history of what happens when pure striker meets pure grappler ?
Winston Wolf - someone said they would take a golden gloves winner over a Mundial winner Heck Id take a Mundial champ over a world boxing champ.Who was the roided boxer who lost a street fight to a blue belt ? Think it was Vargas who lost to a blue belt Granted he was a very good bluebelt and is probly a brown belt now
video please. I'd take a boxer over a mundial champ anyday. Way more tough after being in real fights. We've seen the same thing happen in the UFC. Hell, look at marcello garcia.
This was discussed at length over the course of many threads. and confirmed by many, years ago over & over. It is pretty much common knowledge.
The Boxer was Fernando Vargas, blue belt was a guy named Brian from a Rickson Affillliate in Oxnard. Fight happened in a parking lot outside a Ventura hotel.
Takedown to sidemount, to mount, strikes, turnover to choke. Textbook GJJ.
An entire party of people watching from the balcony and through windows saw it. Vargas's boys went after the dude but he was long gone by the time they got down there.
From what I hear, Vargas has trained some BJJ after the incident.
sharp1 - if bjj is not a fight than boxing is definitely not a fight
a pure boxer would lose to a pure bjj guy in a real fight, so.....
I disagree. What do you mean by "real fight"??
People think that just because Royce walked through a bunch of tough man contest winners that anybody with a good double leg is just going to stroll up and take the fight to the ground without any consequence.
At best I'd say it's even money. What happens if the boxer lands a hard straight right directly on the bridge of the nose against a sport grappler that's never really been hit. Do you think he's just going to shake his head and go "oh man I got hit, that sucks" and continue forward with his attack? Or do you think the initial shock of getting blasted in the nose and seeing stars might open him up for a combination that's going to flatten him?? Any sport grappler that enters MMA has to train some stand up if nothing more then for learning how to react when getting hit.
If I had to take a Golden Gloves boxer who's never trained a day of grappling in his life against a Mundials champion who's never taken or thrown a real punch in his life in a REAL FIGHT I'm taking the boxer every time.
Wow....so the sport BJJ has never taken a punch in his life ? never had a streetfight ? Is not durable ?
The Golden Gloves boxer ? how ell does he grapple ? how does he deal w/ a feint, level change, and fast low shoot or upper body clinch throw ?
what if the BJJ guy is really a non sport Gracie Jiu jitsu guy who has trained w/ strikes in mind since day one and is all about getting the clinch/throw/takedown off of the strikes ?
Have you completely missed out on the history of what happens when pure striker meets pure grappler ?
Also, are you a TUF N00B ?
You're applying all of these random hypothesis to the advantage of the grappler and the disadvantage of a striker.
You completely dodged the whole point of my argument where I took a pure boxer with no grappling against a pure grappler with no striking, which in essence would be a classic striker vs. grappler match, correct?
Then you added variables that matched the outcome that you had predetermined in your head that you think makes sense.
We're supposed to assume that the Sport BJJ guy has been in a bunch of street fights, or even more comical that he has trained with strikes in mind since day one and has centered his training around dodging punches and working his clinch, throws and takedowns directly off of someone throwing a punch.
Yet you presume that the boxer has never in his life wrestled, or even more ridiculous seen a feint or a level change (which are in fact integral parts of boxing).
You're basically turning the sport BJJ guy into an MMA fighter and the boxer into the most one dimensional, clueless brawler in the history of the sport.
And no I'm not a TUF noob I guess I've grown up past the UFC 1-4 Disneyland where training BJJ makes you a lethal weapon regardless of size, strength, athletic ability, or environment.
Most of the top MMA champions today, even the ones that are legit black belts, use their knowledge of sport grappling more as a defensive weapon then anything. Even BJ Penn uses boxing to weaken his opponent before he resorts to grappling.
hang em up, so you think a boxer will know more about wrestling/judo then a BJJ guy?
because the fact is in a 1 on 1 fight between 1 dimensional fighters, whoever can control the takedown will win.
and i have never heard of a top BJJ guy that had never done pure takedown rounds even if he sucked at them. but i bet i could ask 100 boxing champs, less then 10 would have ever wrestled.
Listen, I've been training BJJ and competing in tournaments for years. BJJ matches are NOT fights. I get a shitload of no-gi matches in my bracket, then maybe I'll do the absolutes, and finally I might do the gi division if it's not too late.
No way could you ever do that in boxing because boxing is a real fight.
I'm sure this guy has had his ego destroyed by a BJJ guy recently, hence all the hate for BJJ. It's like all the wanna be tough guys who come in and get wrecked their first BJJ class.. all of them try and soothe their ego after class by thinking "well, if it were REAl I could have done this or that"..lol Usually you never see this type again.. I'm guessing that's who all these haters are on this forum are..the guys who ego can't stand getting owned by SMALLER higher ranking BJJ guys every class....thus they quit and post hate on teh internet and live in denial. You guys are ONLY hurting yourselves by not learning and training BJJ..
ESPECIALLY now that UFC is mainstream, I have seen and heard of MORE AND MORE REGULAR joes, Thugs and bar room bralwers taking fights to the ground and using Chokes standing on purpose to emulate "UFC"...though sloppily, there is an even greater chance that you will be taken down in a fight NOW than ever before. Just look at "Street FIght Videos" on Youtube, the majority go to the ground and one gains mount etc etc... Hell, I watched the neighbors KIDS "playing" and they were using take downs and Armbars... IMO You need to know AND train BJJ more now than ever before, considering that more and more people know about submissions and takedowns...it' may save your ass one day...
But I do agree that BJJ comps are MATCHES.. not fights.. I've also seen fights when bouncing that were more wrestling than an actual fight.. lol
That's war.. that is real shit.. In a MMA fight it lasts minutes, in a war you have bullets flying past you, bombs going off, friends being killed..and mant never live to see their family again. MMA is a cake walk compared to what regular guys have done overseas(and sacrificed)..
Boxing is also tougher than most Modern MMA fights, rounds of rounds of taking fast and HARD punches from expert punchers without the option of taking the fight to the ground... Take some tough bastards to make it...
marcovia - its really just semantics.....i dont really see any need to get bend out of shape over it....
Some of the TOP bjjers in the world refer to their matches as fights (i know for sure you wouldnt take that tone with them when bringing up your point.)
have some tact when stating an opinion please. ;-)
You sound like a BJJ nerd who just got offended because his matches aren't fights. MMA FIGHTS... BJJ Matches. Im sure I would take this tone with them and I have done so before. Most of the time they don't understand because they speak portuguese but I have told them its a match not a fight.
wreckker - B OXING is a FIGHT its also harder and takes more balls than MMA .
You just take WAAAY more shots to the dome training for a fight and in the fiught than you do in mma.
BJJ LOL pajama top rules no striking=Not a fight
just explain something for me. If Boxing is a "Fight" why can't I kick you? Why can't I poke you in the eye? Are you saying Boxing is a Fight with specific rules??? Oh that sounds like a BJJ fight...BJJ match...call it what you want....
Taking 'WAAAY more shots' doesn't make boxing harder then MMA....just more dangerous. Boxing is cigarettes...MMA is the tree of life!
16-10 Hangemup-"...We're supposed to assume that the Sport BJJ guy has been in a bunch of street fights, or even more comical that he has trained with strikes in mind since day one and has centered his training around dodging punches and working his clinch, throws and takedowns directly off of someone throwing a punch."-------------------------------------------------------------------------Not sure what is so comical. That is Gracie Jiu Jitsu EXACTLY as helio envisioned it....not his fault BJJ took a life of it's own and turned into it's own TMA w/ special rules, weight classes, points, etc...and most importantly NO STRIKES.
It was ALWAYS meant to be trained w/ any and ALL strikes in mind in a situation w/ no weight cleasses or time limits....As a matter of fact after a short while of giving the sport BJJ scenen a chance he saw what it was turning into and wanted NOTHING to do with it...at all. even donned a blue belt as a result.
That's what Jiu jitsu always was to me, not this sporty TMA thing it's turning into. It was ALWAYS about dealing w/ strikes. Always.
bTW I've done BJJ, Judo, and boxed.....non of it was anything like a real fight no matter how you slice it. Boxing was close because of the hits, but is in no way the way a real fight would have unfolded.
