It's the cup. -ken
DannyOcean -TrainBJJ - This is Jacare....word for word...
"There was a guy who trained with us at Rolls' academy, a guy named Sergio Dorileo, nicknamed "Sucuri " (Python), who liked to research techniques in old judo and wrestling books that he could find. One day he came to the academy and said "hey, Rolls, pass my guard, check this out man". When Rolls went to pass, Sucuri caught him with his triangle. Then he showed everyone what he had learned from some old judo book and since then everyone has known the triangle. I mean, all the jiu-jitsu guys . Royce beat Dan Severn with a triangle in UFC 3. Severn said after the fight that he had never heard of a triangle before. Well, now he's heard and everyone else too. Consequently, different methods for passing the guard had to be developed. These days there are so many ways. Whenever a defense is developed for one way, a new way is invented."
Yes, you are going to have to SOURCE that.
I am wanting to be on your side here, but just copypasto from another UG thread is not going to cut it. SOURCE.
Roberto Pedreira - Martial Arts Illustrated - August 1999
We don't need a source for this one people !
This is according to the Gracie's themselves !!
Read 'The Gracie Way' which is their official biography and is the biggest fluff piece ever done.
They ERASE anything they don't like in that book. They actually erase UFC5 (where Royce didn't look so good) and claim he went straight from UFC4 to PRIDE.
Even in this book, in the chapter on Rolls, they state flat out that one of his students got the triangle choke out of an old Judo book he found in the 1970s.
Stop trolling Train BJJ.
We all know the Gracie family invented fighting and everything to do with grappling.
LSelvon - Huge difference! The judo one is NEVER seen in judo.
You've never seen Judo then.
I find it funny that BJJ is taking Kesa and Reverse Kesa so seriously lately.
TrainBJJ -DannyOcean -TrainBJJ - This is Jacare....word for word...
"There was a guy who trained with us at Rolls' academy, a guy named Sergio Dorileo, nicknamed "Sucuri " (Python), who liked to research techniques in old judo and wrestling books that he could find. One day he came to the academy and said "hey, Rolls, pass my guard, check this out man". When Rolls went to pass, Sucuri caught him with his triangle. Then he showed everyone what he had learned from some old judo book and since then everyone has known the triangle. I mean, all the jiu-jitsu guys . Royce beat Dan Severn with a triangle in UFC 3. Severn said after the fight that he had never heard of a triangle before. Well, now he's heard and everyone else too. Consequently, different methods for passing the guard had to be developed. These days there are so many ways. Whenever a defense is developed for one way, a new way is invented."
Yes, you are going to have to SOURCE that.
I am wanting to be on your side here, but just copypasto from another UG thread is not going to cut it. SOURCE.
Roberto Pedreira - Martial Arts Illustrated - August 1999
excellent. Now you get to win the argument once and for all, unless somebody actually looks it up and calls BS.
they cant, and they wont.
TrainBJJ - they cant, and they wont.
FLAWLESS VICTORY
So think about that...Helio is credited for making BJJ what it is. For making it work for the small guy (please define judo and laugh at this whole argument)...for revolutionizing it....yet his greatest fighting son...20+ years after his fighting days, didnt even know a basic judo triangle...
Lets be honest...BJJ is scamming people..always has been...
Lets be honest...BJJ is scamming people..always has been...
-TrainBJJ
Marketing and lies created by Rorian Gracie.
Gusto, Yeah cause that would make my argument false...LOL...You dont even have to see that they are straws to see what you are grasping at...
Great song
Wait a minute.....BJJ came from Judo yet Meada didnt teach the Gracies the Triangle and after fighting and competing with Judo people they still didnt see the Triangle and they even made the Triangle as part of their logo...wow!
I don't see what the big issue is here TrainBJJ. I thought the whole point of BJJ was bringing together effective grappling techniques to allow smaller men to have a chance against larger, stronger opponents. I'm sure alot of techniques have been borrowed from other styles that have been around much longer.
Isn't this just the evolution of martial arts. Some martial arts are nearly useless in real life fights because they do change or adapt. Innovation of new moves + keeping the good stuff, no matter where it came from, is a good thing. Why get hung up on who gets credit for what? (Last question is serious. I am a fan of grappling and MMA but do not train. I am just looking for some insight. Thanks)
"I thought the whole point of BJJ was bringing together effective grappling techniques to allow smaller men to have a chance against larger, stronger opponents"
What you thought the whole point was, had already been considered bro....TRAIN JUDO
TrainBJJ - "I thought the whole point of BJJ was bringing together effective grappling techniques to allow smaller men to have a chance against larger, stronger opponents"
What you thought the whole point was had already been considered bro....TRAIN JUDO
Fair enough. What about my last question?
BM, I understand your second question, but how do you think they met Mitsuyo Maeda? He was a MMA fighter..Its what he did...
You have to look at the Gracies for what they were...The Spencer Pratts of Brazil..Sure they say they knew it, but they didnt pay attention to shit nor did they study long enough to know shit. They were spoon fed rich boys without a purpose...They just specialized in lying and streching the truth to make themselves look good in the public eye..Hello Spencer!
Did you know Mitsuyo Maeda won by triangle (IN AN MMMA FIGHT) before ever going to Brazil??
It's true bro...
This isnt something IM making up, anyone can find the truth if they seek it. Look it up.
Now the following generation, they had to get tough...They had to defend the bullshit spewed by the prior.....But even then, they always fell short of the lies told...
Didnt they?
Not their fault...more their kin's...
There are two types of threads that just NEVER get boring.
1. Any 10th Planet thread; and
2. BJJ bashing by TrainJiudo.
So your beef is not that they incorporated techniques, it is that the Gracies falsely claimed to have come up with this on their own.
Kind of like plagiarism. They should have added footnotes stating the source. In this case Judo.
I understand now. Thanks for helping to enlighten me.
BM
"The Gracies were demonstrating leg locks in the 50's, but somehow, the triangle choke escaped them until the 70's?Again, it's entirely unsubstantiated, and to be honest, it's a ridiculous idea."
How does hell feel, you uneducated fagit? Oh wait, Im sure you know more about the art of BJJ than Jacare!