The guy humiliated the Kodokan, even in a gi. Do you think he could’ve beaten Helio? How about Rickson? How good were the old school catch wrestlers on the ground in pure sub matches (pins don’t end the match)?
This and even the previous generation of fans have no ideal who Santel was, as great as he was. You need to discuss that with knowledgeable and unbias people. Not a lot on here. If we were face to face, I’d discuss it with you.
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I’m interested in learning more
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In. Never heard of him.
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Calling all old school Catch fans…
IN
He was legit for sure.
yep, wladek crimped George Gracie and had a questionable draw with helio, it’s almost certain carlos paid him to carry helio. Wladek wouldn’t last 5 minutes against ad. Santel studied the opera house jiujitsu style and beat numerous judoka here and in japan
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Adolf appeared to finish them with slams or submissions so I guess that answers your questions. He had the answer to Japanese Jiu-jitsu. I think he would have man handled Helio because he was an imposing physical force and would have likely finished him with a slam ala Rampage v. Arona. Ad Santel, Tom Jenkins, Frank Gotch were dominant in their time. It also appears, Ad was willing to do whatever rules the opponent wanted. He even wore a gi top despite not being a “jacket fighter” and he won against the Kodokan’s selectee. Helio was defeated by Kimura (the Kodokan selectee).
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Adolph Ernst (April 7, 1887 – November 10, 1966), better known for his ring name Ad Santel , was a German-American professional wrestler, considered one of the greatest practitioners of catch wrestling ever. He is also considered to be one of the first mixed martial artists of the modern era due to his feud with the Kodokan judo school. He was a former World Light Heavyweight Champion and held the title for many years.
Rivalry with the Kodokan
Ad Santel fought one of the early clash-of-the-styles matches in modern martial arts history against Tokugoro Ito, a 5th degree black belt in judo from Japan. Fighting under judo rules, which he knew thanks to a previous match against jujutsu specialist Senryuken Noguchi, Santel defeated Ito when a slamming takedown rendered the judoka unable to continue, and then proclaimed himself the World Judo Champion.[1][2] Tokugoro Ito went on to avenge the loss a few months later on June 10, 1916, by defeating Santel with a choke hold, becoming the first and last judoka to ever defeat Santel.[1][3]
In October 1914, Santel came to Seattle and challenged resident jujutsu master Taro Miyake of the Seibukan school in Osaka, who Santel had already met in a draw. Santel won with such a powerful half nelson slam that Miyake remained dizzy for half an hour after the match.[1][2] Seeing this as a new offense, judo founder Jigoro Kano sent 5th degree black belt Daisuke Sakai to avenge his defeat, but Santel again got over him,[2] submitting Sakai twice with a biceps slicer.[1]
As the Kodokan school did not send more challengers, Santel decided to travel to Japan to challenge them in their own ground. He assembled a team with fellow wrestlers Henry Weber and Manjiro “Matty” Matsuda, the latter being a judo black belt who had turned to catch wrestling years before.[4][5] Their travel was possible thanks to Kodokan member Heita Okabe, who helped to host a series of matches between Ad’s team and the Kodokan.[6] Though Kano refused to sanction the event and threatened his students with expulsion if they fought, six of them accepted the challenge nonetheless, among them 5th degree black belts Hikoo Shoji and Reijiro Nakata. It was decided the bouts would be contested under neutral rules that demanded judogi jackets yet allowed all sorts of holds.[2] In front of a crowd of 10.000 at the Yasukuni shrine, Santel defeated Nagata by TKO after a devastating headlock, and the next day he had a 60 minutes draw with Shoji, who left the mat so battered that Santel himself had to help him out of the arena.[1][2] Later Santel would defeat another judoka, Hitoshi Shimizu, to avenge Shimizu’s victory over Weber.[5]
The impact of these performances on Japan was immense. The Japanese were fascinated by the submissions taught in catch wrestling, and Japanese fighters traveled to Europe in order to either participate in various tournaments or to learn catch wrestling at European schools such as Billy Riley’s Snake Pit in Wigan, UK.[7] Okabe and the judo challengers were effectively expelled from Kodokan, but some of them followed Santel to the United States to train with him, among them Hikoo Shoji, who became a freestyle wrestling pioneer in Japan.[1]
In 1925, Santel faced a new judoka, this time Tsutao Higami, a 165-pound lighter but highly renowned groundwork expert who had trained under Ito and Miyake.[8] The match had two falls as in professional wrestling and was refereed by judoka Hiroshi Kitayama. Santel won the first fall, scoring a takedown and transitioning into a neckscissors hold that choked Higami out.[8] After being revived, Higami proceeded to win the second fall, going through a back and forth round and locking a juji-gatame which Kitayama called on his favor. With the two falls evenly scored, the match ended in a draw, although Higami decided to learn professional wrestling himself shortly after.[8][9] In 1926, Santel would face Setsuzo Ota, drawing again.[10]
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It begs the question, why do we not see more of catch wrestling in modern MMA or even grappling? Seems like a natural.
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I read his wiki and discovered a guy named Dr. Roller. What a great grappling name.
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roller was a legit gynecologist
@OP,
To answer your question the answer is a resounding NO! The Gracie’s defeated nearly every catch wrestler out there. The Gracie’s also refined their techniques and strategy so much over the years that almost no grappler could beat them unless they too studied BJJ/GJJ.
You do…American folkstyle is the current representation of the former Catch wrestling. The submissions were taken out when the modern public schools and scholastic sports were developed. The spirit of Catch wrestling lives on in American wrestling and so it is no surprise these were the guys who dominated the UFC since the beginning. The other branch is thru Japan and the Noriaki Kiguchi guys like Gomi, Kid Yamamoto, etc. Catch wrestling came to them bc of guys like Ad Santel. Antonio Inoki was also a student of Catch Wrestling. This is a simplified history of course.
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Dude was a beast having dozens of matches per month.
not sure I agree…when free Grappling came along (the styles were still separate, now there is total fusion) with Abu Dhabi CC…Mark Kerr became the champion…not a Gracie JJ practitioner.
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I passionately disagree. The BJJ’ers won almost all the medals in ADCC. Kerr won most of his matches by points, not by sub. He was a big, strong wrestler who trained with Hammer House (Coleman), but I don’t think he was a catch wrestler.
The Gracie’s lost most of the time unless Carlos paid them to carry helio to a draw. You’re ignorant of history
Wrong again. JJ Machado was considered a phenomenon because he won all his matches by sub. Most everyone else simultaneously flopped to their backs and the winner was decided arbitrarily by the shiek
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None of them hold a candle to Farmer Burns. Even his ghost kicked ass.