Could Matt Hughes beat Rickson on the ground?

[Anek]

@HillboFrateTrane

No

For the six years prior to the Rulon loss, zero points scored against him. For the ten years prior to the Rulon loss, one point scored against him, and that was by Juha Ahokas. So when could Pittman have possibly scored a point against Karelin?

[de_braco]

Rorion brought in Carlson and rillion after he got pissed at rickson for having the temerity to want to make some money. Carlson and rillion were big guns in their own right, but It’s true that Royce never looked the same after rickson broke away

[william795]

I remember at a Relson seminar he said he trained Royce for his first UFC wins. This was right after he lost to Matt. He also said if he trained him he would’ve won.

[RyannVonDoom]

Rickson is a myth. He didnt challenge himself at all where it counted in mma. He has no fighting spirit or aura.

[ItsTooSweet]

@RyannVonDoom

Rickson is a myth. He didnt challenge himself at all where it counted in mma. He has no fighting spirit or aura.

You tell him.

[InCogneeto]

I think Renzo means Rickson was the best when it came to JUJUTSU. Rickson may have tapped Renzo out so many times that he thinks Rickson was the best of the best. But the context is about MMA. What makes Renzo think Rickson is the best “fighter” out of the bunch?

[onepunchJD]

@Winston_Wolf

Perfect example of a fixed fight. Ken literally did nothing the entire fight not one flush punch .Then took a dive which was very obvious on video u posted.Just like he dove against Franklin This was even more obvious Post the Kimbo one And this is why Im not a fan of him

Except there’s nothing obvious about it.

It doesn’t make any sense to take a dive vs Berry.
Not a big name or big payday.
And if Ken wanted more big paydays, losing fights to guys like Berry does nothing to support that goal.

Ken got tagged with a left first that grazed the front of his chin and stiffened him up.
Then he got tagged with a glancing right.
It was 2 punches that put him down.

Fighters get dropped by glancing blows all the time.

You can see the punches land in the replay.

[onepunchJD]

@CrabScissors

Vale Tudo Japan 1994 was a better tournament than UFC 1, and only 7 months after UFC 1. To say Royce is a better fighter because he fought in the UFC is dumb, and only through the lens of history where the best fighters now are in the UFC.

Gotta disagree with this.

Ken Shamrock was better than anyone not named Rickson in VT94.
And Royce had to fight guys like Pat Smith, Dan Severn, Kimo, and Shamrock twice.

Royce’s UFC run > Rickson’s entire MMA career.

It’s hardly debatable.

[onepunchJD]

@william795

Ken was just too old to be fighting there. You can see his reaction time was off on every punch that was thrown at him. He should’ve been in retired.

Yep.

[onepunchJD]

@CrabScissors

As more and more people have opinions who have never trained with anyone who has trained with Rickson, this silly sentiment that he wasn’t actually good will get more pervasive.

If training stories equaled competition success, guys like Shamrock and Marco Ruas would have been Fedor level dominant.

I don’t think anyone is disputing Rickson was the family GJJ champion.

You also have to remember, we have seen Rickson’s MMA fights vs not top opponents.
So it’s not some mystery.

[onepunchJD]

@RyannVonDoom

Rickson is a myth. He didnt challenge himself at all where it counted in mma. He has no fighting spirit or aura.

This is the other end of the spectrum that I don’t agree with… Unless you were being sarcastic.

Rickson was a stud.
Just because the reality doesn’t quite match the legend, doesn’t mean he wasn’t awesome.

[RyannVonDoom]

Bit of sarcasm and a lot of truth. The no fighting spirit or aura was to troll but the rest is truth.

[Winston_Wolf]

it does make sence .Berry is from england fight was in England he was the homer.Ken threw 0 punch face [unches and literally did nothing but take a dive He clearly was not hit.Your a good poster bUt i gotta disagree on these fights being real

[Winston_Wolf]

show the kimbo fight same exact " glancing blow " except ken let go of a full blown choke

[onepunchJD]

@Winston_Wolf

it does make sence .Berry is from england fight was in England he was the homer.Ken threw 0 punch face [unches and literally did nothing but take a dive He clearly was not hit.Your a good poster bUt i gotta disagree on these fights being real

.

Is this an image of Ken not getting hit?

.
.

[onepunchJD]

@Winston_Wolf

show the kimbo fight same exact " glancing blow " except ken let go of a full blown choke

.

People don’t understand the extent of Ken’s injuries.

I’m not in the mood to rewatch that fight man…

From what I remember, it looked like Ken probably blew his arms up, and by the time it should have occured to him to switch grips, it was too late.
Ken has fuzed disks.
So the type of movement to really put leverage on that choke is not something he can do like he used to.

Like I said it’s been a while since I rewatched it – and I’ve posted my opinion on a bunch of threads about it – but the specific elaboration escapes me at the moment.

The reason some of those fights look funny, is because Ken should not have been fighting anymore.

[onepunchJD]

@Winston_Wolf

Your a good poster bUt i gotta disagree on these fights being real

You too man thanks.

[CrabScissors]

@onepunchJD

Gotta disagree with this.

Ken Shamrock was better than anyone not named Rickson in VT94.

I’ll agree with that, but

I love Ken, but he couldn’t deal with adversity. Honestly I don’t know of it’s the same gym bully mentality or what, but he always fell apart when things got hard. That’s the only reason he lost to Royce, who he should have beaten.

Same for fights like Fujita, Sakuraba, Kimbo, ect. I think half the reason people think his fights are works is that he just folds so completely when he faces adversity most times.

There are notable exceptions like Don Frye, but the other fights he always seemed to suffer front runner syndrome. Vitor style

[None_So_Blind]

@Anek

@HillboFrateTrane

No

For the six years prior to the Rulon loss, zero points scored against him. For the ten years prior to the Rulon loss, one point scored against him, and that was by Juha Ahokas. So when could Pittman have possibly scored a point against Karelin?

Devil’s advocate - it’s (relatively) easy to score points in Greco when you see big high-amplitude throws, yeah, but there are a bunch of other more subtle ways to score points, aren’t there? Maybe the dude is saying s/t like “Yeah, I pulled off ‘X’ move on Karelin that I should have gotten a point for, but the judges protected him. I know I scored on him.” or s/t like that?

[Winston_Wolf]

doesnt show anything on e way or the other.In a work u still get hit but dive like Ken did against Berry and Kimbo Very obvious too