Could Matt Hughes beat Rickson on the ground?

[onepunchJD]

@Winston_Wolf

the best grappler in mma of all time

.

[Phuckles]

@Steven_McTowelie

one-eyed men half his size.

As a one-eye man half his size, I take offense to this comment.

[onepunchJD]

@CrabScissors

@ItsTooSweet

I can’t think of one person who says Royce or Renzo became head of the family because they were superior fighters.

I can’t find it anymore, but there was a clip on the old inside MMA show on HD Net where Renzo and a journalist are answering viewer questions. One is “who’s the best Gracie”

Renzo says Rickson. The journalist says “actually you and Royler are much more accomplished. Rickson didn’t prove himself as much. I’d pick you or Royler”

Renzo laughs and says something like “you have no idea what you’re talking about my friend. It’s not even close”

Yeah I’ve heard the stories for years.

I’ve also seen him take like 9 minutes to submit the masterful technician and MMA legend…Takada!

I believe what the other Gracie’s say about Rickson, and I believe it applies to GJJ.
NHB is a different matter.

I am not convinced that Rickson would have duplicated Royce’s UFC run had he stepped in instead.

He probably would have “retired” after the first one anyways…

[buddie]

I personally thought Hughes was a very good grappler, and he proved it throughout his career and in ADCC. Let’s not forget Newton also triangled him as well. Interesting hearing Henderson talking about him on the Lytle’s Out Podcast. Henderson said basically BJ was significantly better than Hughes but lacked the conditioning and focus. I think Hughes could have a good chance against Rickson for sure. It probably depends significantly on the rules, time and venue. I could see it going either way. In the UFC I’d pick Hughes. He was so much more active and had a significant advantage by virtue of training with the best guys for that rule set. The MFC game planning was pretty cutting edge science at the time.

[buddie]

@onepunchJD

I’ve also seen him take like 9 minutes to submit the masterful technician and MMA legend…Takada!

Styles and game plans make fights and the entire GJJ philosophy is to avoid damage, control and marinate the opponent through positional control. That’s clearly what happened. It’s not a race. In fact the Gracie’s have openly said repeatedly that time limits are stupid. It’s a little like a masterful boxer take his time to work his gameplan vs just trying to run through a guy.

[onepunchJD]

@buddie

@onepunchJD

I’ve also seen him take like 9 minutes to submit the masterful technician and MMA legend…Takada!

Styles and game plans make fights and the entire GJJ philosophy is to avoid damage, control and marinate the opponent through positional control. That’s clearly what happened. It’s not a race. In fact the Gracie’s have openly said repeatedly that time limits are stupid. It’s a little like a masterful boxer take his time to work his gameplan vs just trying to run through a guy.

I know, it was a cheap line.
I was being kind of shitty.

[Squishy1]

Between this and a thread on the OG, I just realized how much BJJers/Rickson fans remind me of Tool fans lol.

[Squishy1]

@buddie

Styles and game plans make fights and the entire GJJ philosophy is to avoid damage, control and marinate the opponent through positional control. That’s clearly what happened. It’s not a race.

The round timers say

Op said “in MMA”, not in Rickson’s gym. He won’t have 9 minutes straight in top position to work for a sub unless we give him special rules he has a better chance of winning under…which would have to include starting on top, lol.

Also, I tagged the wrong guy.

[Son_of_Neckbone]

@onepunchJD

@buddie

@onepunchJD

I’ve also seen him take like 9 minutes to submit the masterful technician and MMA legend…Takada!

Styles and game plans make fights and the entire GJJ philosophy is to avoid damage, control and marinate the opponent through positional control. That’s clearly what happened. It’s not a race. In fact the Gracie’s have openly said repeatedly that time limits are stupid. It’s a little like a masterful boxer take his time to work his gameplan vs just trying to run through a guy.

I know, it was a cheap line.
I was being kind of shitty.

The truth can be a real bitch. Rickson was Takada’s first ever fight. He was a pro rassler. After turning down many opponents in Pride he decided to fight Takada again because of his “warrior spirit” or something like that, and most definitely not because of the whole generic Japanese-can angle. Takada did after all manage to win 2 of his 10 MMA fights, with one of them being very dubious.

And Rickson prevailed in their 2nd fight, the greatest of all time apparently taking 10 minutes to secure the tap on a prowrestler.

I don’t hate on Takada, but the complete lack of quality opponents doesn’t help Rickson’s legacy, and I think Hughes could very literally beat every opponent Rickson has fought back to back to back, and it wouldn’t take him 10 minutes each. He’d chew through the lot of them in 2 minutes or less.

[Winston_Wolf]

i thought he said he only got him once shortly before Rolls death But i am probly wrong

[onepunchJD]

@Son_of_Neckbone

@onepunchJD

@buddie

@onepunchJD

I’ve also seen him take like 9 minutes to submit the masterful technician and MMA legend…Takada!

Styles and game plans make fights and the entire GJJ philosophy is to avoid damage, control and marinate the opponent through positional control. That’s clearly what happened. It’s not a race. In fact the Gracie’s have openly said repeatedly that time limits are stupid. It’s a little like a masterful boxer take his time to work his gameplan vs just trying to run through a guy.

I know, it was a cheap line.
I was being kind of shitty.

The truth can be a real bitch. Rickson was Takada’s first ever fight. He was a pro rassler. After turning down many opponents in Pride he decided to fight Takada again because of his “warrior spirit” or something like that, and most definitely not because of the whole generic Japanese-can angle. Takada did after all manage to win 2 of his 10 MMA fights, with one of them being very dubious.

And Rickson prevailed in their 2nd fight, the greatest of all time apparently taking 10 minutes to secure the tap on a prowrestler.

I don’t hate on Takada, but the complete lack of quality opponents doesn’t help Rickson’s legacy, and I think Hughes could very literally beat every opponent Rickson has fought back to back to back, and it wouldn’t take him 10 minutes each. He’d chew through the lot of them in 2 minutes or less.

Agreed.

Rickson fighting Takada the second time was a joke – and not a funny one.

So many potential matchups – and he rematches Takada.

Sheesh.

[WrestlingSucks]

He probably just chokes Rickson out like he did Ricardo Almeida in a front headlock.

[IP]

I’d love to hear Renzo’s take on what he thought of Hughes’ skills during his prime years.

[CrabScissors]

@onepunchJD

I’ve also seen him take like 9 minutes to submit the masterful technician and MMA legend…Takada!

I’ve always felt these ideas are kind of silly.

People strategize based on the rule set. Just because he subbed him in 9 minutes doesn’t mean he couldn’t have done it sooner.

People manage energy based on the time available.

If they were 3 minute rounds, he would have tapped him sooner.

[CrabScissors]

@WrestlingSucks

He probably just chokes Rickson out like he did Ricardo Almeida in a front headlock.

He dropped Almeida with punches before that though.

He wouldn’t sub Almeida in grappling I don’t think. At the very least we can’t say he is better at submission grappling from that outcome, we don’t really know if he would have beaten him without rocking him first

[WrestlingSucks]

The Gracies only have that one game plan though. They never evolved to modern rule sets. The plan was always pull guard and wait for the opponent to make a mistake.

[CrabScissors]

@onepunchJD

I know, it was a cheap line.
I was being kind of shitty.

I didn’t realize this already got talked about, sorry I wrote a novel above addressing it

[WrestlingSucks]

Hughes submitted Jeremy Horn in ADCC in seconds. Imagine what he would do to Ricardo

[CrabScissors]

@WrestlingSucks

Hughes submitted Jeremy Horn in ADCC in seconds. Imagine what he would do to Ricardo

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not lol. Not because of you, because I’m a retard.

They were teammates and conspired to get the cash bonus for biggest slam and fastest sub. Then split the money.

Both were banned from ADCC for that, though they let Matt come back later.

Edit: the gif didn’t load lol. You got me

[anon97809041]

Like Ken Shamrock I’m sure Rickson big brothered the other Gracie’s. Frank may have been the little brother but I feel he had the better career