I've been watching a few clips about Crazy Monkey Boxing. This is a style of boxing developed by a South African kick-boxer Rodney King (not the guy who got beaten by the LAPD). Supposedly this style of boxing is easier to learn than traditional boxing and doesn't rely as much on reaction speed etc.
From what I've seen so far the system is based on a high guard with the hands kept on top of the head. Hooks are defended against by moving the hand to the back of the head so the elbow/arm protects against the hook. Jabs are defended against by arm movements (similarly keeping the hands on top of the head).
Supposedly the techniques are similar to what Rampage used against Wanderlei Silva, but from my perspective they are not really the same.
What do people think of this system? I'm not really sure what to make of it. Some things that seem to count against it are firstly, in the video he demonstrates the "system" against people who have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Also the techniques he describes are not really the strategy he uses when fighting the tomato cans in the video. Secondly I tried his stance and it felt kind of awkward and restricted my vision and head movement quite a bit.
Not sure if I should persist giving it a go or not.
There's a few good ideas there,but basic boxing is still a safer bet. They have a strong cult-like thing going on about the way they teach and apply stuff. Go too a good boxing gym. Don't bother with any distance learning stuff (they have them).
You prob. need to train with someone who knows CMB tactics. It was design to EASE students into sparring. It's very similar to a Peek A Boo style of boxing. It seems design for a MMA striking or street fight where the gloves are smaller or you go bare knuckle. Some people find the stance restrictive...specifically those that fight in a side stance. Like anything else...take what is useful and discards the rest.
It'll only work against complete newbs. Your wasting arm length by keeping your hands so high, comprimising your body and vision. Learn boxing fundamentals instead.
But since keeping one's hands up is a hard lesson to initially learn, if I was going to give newbs a crash course in boxing and they were only going to fight guys that can't box I could see it's use.
I had some guy show up at the gym one night. European kid in Denver for the summer. Like all newbies, I asked what if any training he'd had before coming to our gym. He's going on and on about how's he been training in Crazy Monkey style for a year or so and how it's so great.
After he's been there a few weeks, we let him spar with us. Before this day, I'd asked him about defending the body shot and he was pretty dismissive about it lol. "If you are in good shape, the body shot is not problem."
So I watched him spar a round with one of our greener guys, then I got in with him. I threw a couple of quick but light one two's at his head to get him to make that phone answering motion, then one about my 3rd one two, I feinted the right hand, went hard to the liver with a left hook, then snickered at him a bit as he rolled around in pain. Needless to say, he spent the rest of his summer practicing more conventional boxing techniques.
If you are a pressure figher and/or grappler it is a good defense to learn and once you learn the basics and move into phase2 you'll see that it's actually 2 layers of defense, slipping and blocking combined, which is the lead into counter punching.
It's not the most offensive delivery system but by learning to punch off the diving board, you'll learn how to keep your chin down and your lines tight which is invaluable if you are new to sparring
Yeah I never liked the compete disregard of shots to the body that the defense seemed to offer. However, I always assumed there was more to it than the little bit I have seen of the guy's seminars on the net. If they really always block with the elbow up like that......I could see some rib counting sessions breaking out.
stlnl2 - Yeah I never liked the compete disregard of shots to the body that the defense seemed to offer. However, I always assumed there was more to it than the little bit I have seen of the guy's seminars on the net. If they really always block with the elbow up like that......I could see some rib counting sessions breaking out.fwiw only a fool would use that head cover and stand tall. Almost everyone I've seen use it well adopts a low crouch with lots of motion and angles. It is very hard to drop a body shot on them because a slight level change blocks it.
Bull_in_chinashop -stlnl2 - Yeah I never liked the compete disregard of shots to the body that the defense seemed to offer. However, I always assumed there was more to it than the little bit I have seen of the guy's seminars on the net. If they really always block with the elbow up like that......I could see some rib counting sessions breaking out.fwiw only a fool would use that head cover and stand tall. Almost everyone I've seen use it well adopts a low crouch with lots of motion and angles. It is very hard to drop a body shot on them because a slight level change blocks it.
Which was my point, and fwiw, I learned it as a cover and hit, not a way into and unto itself to fight. I still am confused though since I see so many folks on the net talking CM if there is something more to it that I dont see on the net. Which could be I have seen it, and it just had a different name when I saw it in a gym.
there is much more to it than a few vids. imho it's really a "delivery system" rather than a defense for beginners and pressure fighters (like those that need to close the gap to grapple) by keeping a good crouch, having "armored up" they are able to look thru their pillars, see openings for countering and clinching and deliver offense from a very safe structure, chin low shoudlers high, lines tight.
the best? no. but easily one of the safest ways to get new guys into sparring. - safety boxing..
Hmm seems to sound more like a simple hands high approach I saw early on in training, and emphasis on certain fundamentals, rather than the super-innovative silver bullet I have heard some folks on the net gush about.
But what I saw in vids is pretty much what you have described, so I am guessing its not a huge innovation, rather just what it looked like, a way to ease people into hitting one another, as you say.
STLN2 I have the video set. It's a bit more involved than holding your hand high to deal with head strikes. It's actually quite indept.
Here are some videos that may answer your questions:
Dispelling The Myth Of The Body Shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R76KC-JkvyM&feature=related
Thanks for all the advice. I think I'll concentrate on basic boxing for now. But maybe keep having a look at the crazy monkey stuff to see if I can find some useful ideas.
I actually think the tactics used by Rampage for example were quite good. Use basic boxing techniques, but when you start to get overwhelmed use a high guard like Winky Wright or similarly if your opponent is delivering big looping punches adopt the "answering the telephone" style of blocking.
Like other posters have said this style of fighting might be most useful for MMA or the street where opponents are likely not to be highly skilled boxers and are likely to be delivering head strikes.
Rampage does not use crazy monkey, neither do Winky Wright, they learned from boxing trainers. Don't try to pick a style or strategy, just go to a boxing gym and work with a trainer.
At the same time...very few on this forum seems to know what CMB is about. So I suggest further indepth study before one judge it. The video set is quite detailed. I don't know if Winky Wright has filmed instructionals but imitating say Floyd's philly shelling style could be detrimental to one's health while sparring.
Thanks for the additional comments. Sorry if I caused any confusion I wasn't trying to imply that Winky Wright or Rampage trained in or used Crazy Monkey ! Just that there are some similarities !
Rodney King has obviously taken a lot of ideas from boxing and Muay Thai and added a few thoughts of his own to develop his system. I don't see that many boxers using the "answering the phone" style of blocking, although I've seen it in Muay Thai. Although having said that I've seen a lot of stuff shown by boxing trainers over the years only a small subset of which you tend to see used by today's professionals.
When I was at highschool I went to a boxing gym for a while, but I realized pretty quick that I wasn't going to be much of a boxer so I didn't stick with it. Now I'm in my 30s, but I like to do some boxing, mainly shadow boxing, bag work, mitts etc just to keep fit. However just doing the same old stuff gets boring so that is why I've been looking at different stuff to experiment with, also in a self-defense type situation your opponent may well be a lot bigger and perhaps less skilled, and with the addition of lack of gloves I've been thinking about how I should change tactics for that situation.
Also as I've got older I've got a lot slower probably as much to do with long periods of no training as with progressing age !
I spoke to some boxing coaches a while back, but we weren't really on the same wavelength. Some of them seemed to have a bad attitude and didn't know that much. Some were better but seemed puzzled as to why I wanted to train given my age !
I do something that in some ways is similar. The key to being able to fight out of that style of defense is the mechanics of you punches.
Bad punching mechanics = crappy offense
Good mechanics = plenty of offense
CM is for close range. Most guys cannot throw hard inside, hence the problem. Being able to throw short inside punches with good mechanics is the key.
If you CM cover up when your opponent has range, he will eat you for lunch.
CM is for close range. Most guys cannot throw hard inside, hence the problem. Being able to throw short inside punches with good mechanics is the key.
If you CM cover up when your opponent has range, he will eat you for lunch.
I would have to disagree. Have you seen the instructionals??? The 1st part of his video at the 4:13 mark shows him teaching dealing the jab by catching it and dealing with the right cross with the lead shield. The range is called the RIM SHOT range. You can review this in Rodney King SBG vol 1 street boxing.
Yes,CM1 is for the rim-shot range,the range at which your opponent can just touch you. It isn't so much the techniques I'd be wary of,but their closed minded attitude of the organization. CM is a "brand". As such you cannot refer to it as a "style" of boxing.
Honestly,the vids are OK,but it's not even close to being the magic shield some guys make it out to be.
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