i'm a creonte and proud of it. if these fuckers left politics to politicians then there wouldn't be a problem. Not all, but ALOT of brazilian bjj blackbelts need to recognize that's now how it's done here and to fuck off if someone wants to train at many schools.
As far as BJJ goes, it has deeper meaning than just "traitor" or a person who used to train on one team and now trains at another....There is a difference
If Joe Shmo white belt doesn't like one school and then goes to another school where he feels more comfortable, likes the way the instructor teaches, etc. and starts training there, he will probably NOT be labeled a 'Creonte'.
A Creonte is someone who goes from school to school and shows no real allegiance or loyalty to any. While at each school he uses the instructor and resources of the school to better himself and then splits when the use for them is no longer needed. Giving nothing in return. It happens to everyone and happens at our place a lot. People come in all the time right before their fight and say "Hey, I am fighting Person X and he's a BJJ purple/brown/black belt. Can you roll with me and attack me like a BJJ guy would". So you roll with this person for an hour or so, trading some secrets and showing what might happen. They may come back once or twice before their fight, but afterwards they are gone in the wind...and when you have a fight, they are nowhere to be found to return the favor. That my friend, is a "Creonte".
Oh, yeah, and I forgot, all the above usually goes on without a single dollar being offered. Mind you, the place may be open longer, or on a day that usually isn't, but that's not your concern. Leave it to the school owner. Maybe you'll get a mention in an interview or an article, but mre than likely not.
Don't get me wrong, I love fighting and teaching BJJ, but respect in this sport has to be a 2-way street. I've learned after a few years, that not everyone appreciates what you do for them.
This is the kind of definition I was looking for.You always have the most well written and thought out posts...
Some other questions,
Was this the way the characture in the soap was? was he a fighter or did he do something else? How did it apply to BJJ?
Also, alanbjj, any relation between the word and the greek myth?
Thanks! I guess the money my parents spent on 8 years of college didn't go to waste :)
We have the article put up on the wall of our school, and it explains exactly who Creonte was. He was a soap opera character in Brazil, but I can't remember what the character on the show did to make Carlson draw the conclusion between him and school-jumping-bjj'ers. Give me a day or two, and I'll see what I can find out.
Angelo, Righteous. I agree.
Kosta, That is not how it is done here (USA?). At least it isn't if you want to keep your friends.
Osaekomi, either there was a miscommunication, or you have no idea what i'm talking about. 99% of these brazilians don't give a shit about you. I pledge allegiance, but to an american bjj blackbelt, because he doesn't have that inbred culture of brazilian favoritism and politics.
More Words!Jiu Jitsu Dictionary» "Puxa pra Guarda" = Act of closing your legs around the waist the opponent.» "Raspa ele" = Act of taking the opponent from above you ending up on top.» "Emborca ele" = When you make the opponent flip backwards.» "Tá amarrando" = When the athlete does not want the fight to involve.» "Creonte" = Person that is jumping from one academy to another.» "Maria Tatame" = A woman who only like fighters.» "Bota para baixo" = Is what people say when they want you to put your oponent down.» "Ele tá amarelando" = Is what you say when someone is chickening out.» "Bota para dormir" = Is what people say when they want you to choke your oponent to the point of fainting.» "Bate estaca" = To slam someone when you're standing up in his guard.» "Mão de Vaca" = Wristlock.» "Ezequiel" = Sleeve choke.» "Triangulo" = Triangle.» "Mata leão" =Rear naked choke.» "Chave de braço" = Armlock.» "Chave de joelho" = Kneelock.» "Chave de pé" = footlock.» "Passando a guarda" = Passing the guard.» "100 kilos" = Side mount» "Boa Luta" = Good fight Alex
www.naguardakimonos.com 100% Jiu-Jitsu
kosta is a tough GUY!
Creonte: 1.A person who believes that if they pay for a service they don't owe the provider of the service any loyalty beyond that level. 2.A negative term used by cunning Brazilians to gull Americans into both paying outrageous prices for a service and giving the kind of loyalty to the provider of the service one would normally only reserve for one's mother.
Seems like a lot of the best guys are Creontes.
"...99% of these brazilians don't give a shit about you. I pledge allegiance, but to an american bjj blackbelt, because he doesn't have that inbred culture of brazilian favoritism and politics.
"2.A negative term used by cunning Brazilians to gull Americans into both paying outrageous prices for a service and giving the kind of loyalty to the provider of the service one would normally only reserve for one's mother."
I guess I don't agree w/ this, because I don't experience this. True-I have to pay for training w/ a BJJ BB. That IS his job, and it is a good/service I desire. However, I will tell you this...Once a person realizes you are 100% loyal to them, they are more likely to return the loyality to you. In my example loyalty doesn't equal money...I mean real loyalty and friendship, not just to get your next belt. Most Americans can't understand this and always want the quick fix and the shortest route. I'm trying to LEARN a martial ART. Not just tap people out and wear a new belt. I feel sorry for people if they are in the type of situation Kosta described.
I'm with ya Angelo. That is why our dojo uses the term "droogie" because it represents to us loyalty, etc. of which you write. When a droogie turns out to be a creonte it is like a tear in our heart, the essence, the spirirt, the premise of the club.
We are not Brazillians and you do not have to be one to grasp the concept. We are associated with Behring JiuJitsu, their philosophies and spirit without any exchange of money.
hey walter, what's up? marcio says he's returning in march. but then again he siad he was returning in january so...... i think it all depends what his fight/competition schedule determine.
brazilians, and everyone else, charge money because they have to. it's their livelihood, how they provide for themselves and their families.
incidentally, phonetically, the word sounds like this:
CREE-onch, sometimes CREE-on-chee, but the "e" at the end is almost silent. it's funny when i hear some brazilian friends pronounce royce as "hoy-see". the people from sao paolo seem to pronounce the ending "e"s more than other brazilians.
"Once a person realizes you are 100% loyal to them, they are more likely to return the loyality to you."
What does this mean in practical terms? Does this mean that they will show you more than the other guy who pays the same but doesn't want to be in a cult?
Osaekomi,
Are you saying you don't pay for training? If you get your training for free that is different.
not ALL, but most of the brazilians are cultish. They play favorites and give back the 'loyalty' to those that ride their nuts.
usurper, what's your problem w/ me? your sarcasm is unwanted. i wasn't addressing you. you've been throwing your little remarks at me for the past 2 years here and there. fuck off. milas ellinika, to ksero.. os'tote, i mana sou einai putana.
hahaha.. i don't know why but that little outburst made me laugh out loud.
Ridgeback-
"What does this mean in practical terms? Does this mean that they will show you more than the other guy who pays the same but doesn't want to be in a cult?"
No, that's my whole point...it goes beyond Jiu Jitsu. I'm talking about things that FRIENDS and FAMILY would do. For most people, they come to class pay their money, do Jiu Jitsu and move on along their way and go home. I think the people Kosta and I are referring to our the diehards who are there everyday, teach, help out and basically give up part of their life for jiu jitsu. Do some Braz. blackbelts take advantage of people? I'm sure some do. Some don't. Like, Osaekomi said, you don't have to be a Brazilian to understand loyalty.
bet you guys have a brazilian flag where you train that is larger than the american one, IF you have an american flag. (by YOU, i mean whomever, not singling anyone out).
only flag at our club is a MFC flag.
Some of the best fighters may be creonte, however, when their streak is done, what are they left with? nothing..this is mma..they wont be rich, they wont be famous and if they are creonte, they wont have any friends either.
This is the way I look at this subject. Loyalty in respect to paying for a service starts with the provider of that service. If I find an instructor who really helps me out then I will be loyal to him much in the same way that I am loyal to a good repair shop or barber. I personally believe that if a person is getting paid for a service then they should apply the same level of instruction to all of their customers, not pick favorites and exclude the rest.
As a consumer I believe that you have to earn my loyalty if I am paying you for a service. I think that many Braz. instructors have that concept backwards. They expect loyalty from their students first and then they finally teach them the good stuff and put some real effort into making them better. To me that is ass-backwards and has no place in the modern business world.
Now if we were talking about an instructor who taught students for free in another time and place then things would be very different. A young samurai being apprenticed under an old master should certainly be correct to give his loyalty to the master, but we are not living in an age like that and last I checked Braz. instructors were not teaching for free.
The term Creonte is a business trick like a trendy night club that leaves you begging to get in the door to pay them. I personally try not to fall for scams like that.