I know he's huge on MMA/Self Defense BJJ and I know he used to compete. But it seems like he went all in on the self defense. Does he still train sport at all? I could imagine doing self defense has to get boring.
I don’t know about Rener, but here’s what I say to new guys at our gym who I know will eventually encounter certain debates about sport vs SD (and I started training in the mid 90s, coach at an MMA gym, and try to focus my BJJ mostly on being applicable in a fight/SD scenario…though we do have some guys who compete, so…):
The question of “why learn sport BJJ” really comes down to, IMO, how much “BJJ vs BJJ” you’re going to learn. You’re going to want to learn some. Otherwise, why would we bother with passing guard, or being any good at defending an arm lock? That’s stuff a BJJ guy is going to throw at you.
To me, the main thing to keep in mind is that to get better at rolling/fighting, you have to train against people who are good, and do it consistently for quite some time.
You’re welcome to try to do that without learning many counters for the moves they will throw at you, but I doubt you will have much fun :). This means you won’t stick with it, because you’ll get tired of just getting beat up.
Now…does that mean you have to go way down the rabbit hole of keeping up with the latest crab ride stuff or RDLR stuff or whatever gi entanglement is the latest tool? No, I don’t think you do.
But all of us that are doing this for the long term are playing against BJJ to some extent, the question is how much. And I don’t think that gets boring at all.
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I fully agree. But I also think too many people are hooked on sport. They learn a little SD and are like "eh I know it, Im all set". I like that kind of "transition" game into MMA. Maia, Kron etc.
Im not trying to start a debate but I think sometimes in sport you create bad habits. If you run into someone that even has a little training, you might be introuble
Bend The Knee -I know he's huge on MMA/Self Defense BJJ and I know he used to compete. But it seems like he went all in on the self defense. Does he still train sport at all? I could imagine doing self defense has to get boring.
I dont understand this post. He rolls and grapples like everyone else. He doesn't do kata all day if thats what you were thinking.
His of grappling is in tune with what you would see from roger or kron.
TheBearStare -Bend The Knee -I know he's huge on MMA/Self Defense BJJ and I know he used to compete. But it seems like he went all in on the self defense. Does he still train sport at all? I could imagine doing self defense has to get boring.
I dont understand this post. He rolls and grapples like everyone else. He doesn't do kata all day if thats what you were thinking.
His of grappling is in tune with what you would see from roger or kron.
Yes but you aint playing worm guard in MMA/SD.
TheBearStare -Bend The Knee -I know he's huge on MMA/Self Defense BJJ and I know he used to compete. But it seems like he went all in on the self defense. Does he still train sport at all? I could imagine doing self defense has to get boring.
I dont understand this post. He rolls and grapples like everyone else. He doesn't do kata all day if thats what you were thinking.
His of grappling is in tune with what you would see from roger or kron.
^this exactly. I have rolled with him.
Anyone who rolls around, no strikes, passes guard, does all BJJ moves to counter BJJ moves during rolling, which everyone does is doing “sport BJJ”
Roger and Kron are sport BJJ players also
Haven't looked in a while but from what I remember their blue-purple course has a ton of sport bjj and leg locks on it.
liquidrob - Anyone who rolls around, no strikes, passes guard, does all BJJ moves to counter BJJ moves during rolling, which everyone does is doing "sport BJJ"Roger and Kron are sport BJJ players also
I suppose you can roll with strikes in mind, is more what I was implying.
Example Maia said a lot of times when he trained, he would do so as if there were striking involved. Someone like Paulo Miyao doesn’t
His like roger and kron, is generally speaking basic like theirs. In addition historically he loves leg locks. He wants submissions.
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Bend The Knee -liquidrob - Anyone who rolls around, no strikes, passes guard, does all BJJ moves to counter BJJ moves during rolling, which everyone does is doing "sport BJJ"Roger and Kron are sport BJJ players also
I suppose you can roll with strikes in mind, is more what I was implying.
Example Maia said a lot of times when he trained, he would do so as if there were striking involved. Someone like Paulo Miyao doesn’t
If you’re rolling around with no strikes, even if on your mind you are playing sport BJJ
And if you don’t want to call it that, you’re rolling around doing BJJ moves against BJJ people which is not self defense training
Roger, Kron were sport players who did techniques that work against other BJJ players, I would assume the majority of there training had zero strikes involved when rolling, or they cared if it was “self defense” ready
The majority of BJJ training, either at a “sport” school or “self defense” school is most likely against other BJJ people in your class and that’s who you roll against
I haven’t been to the Gracie Academy, but I’m sure they “roll” during training, also they like to “keep it playful” in rolling, that it sport BJJ or just rolling with your friends, I don’t think that would be considered self defense training
liquidrob -Bend The Knee -liquidrob - Anyone who rolls around, no strikes, passes guard, does all BJJ moves to counter BJJ moves during rolling, which everyone does is doing "sport BJJ"Roger and Kron are sport BJJ players also
I suppose you can roll with strikes in mind, is more what I was implying.
Example Maia said a lot of times when he trained, he would do so as if there were striking involved. Someone like Paulo Miyao doesn’t
If you’re rolling around with no strikes, even if on your mind you are playing sport BJJ
And if you don’t want to call it that, you’re rolling around doing BJJ moves against BJJ people which is not self defense training
Roger, Kron were sport players who did techniques that work against other BJJ players, I would assume the majority of there training had zero strikes involved when rolling, or they cared if it was "self defense" ready
The majority of BJJ training, either at a “sport” school or “self defense” school is most likely against other BJJ people in your and that’s who you roll against
I haven’t been to the Gracie Academy, but I’m sure they “roll” during training, also they like to “keep it playful” in rolling, that it sport BJJ or just rolling with your friends, I don’t think that would be considered self defense training
Gotcha. Didn’t realize that. Thanks.
I was under the impression if you rolled with strikes in mind your game would drastically change, no matter what you wanna actually call it.
I also find it hard to believe that Kron/Roger those guys “didn’t care” if they were SD/MMA/Street ready.
liquidrob -Bend The Knee -liquidrob - Anyone who rolls around, no strikes, passes guard, does all BJJ moves to counter BJJ moves during rolling, which everyone does is doing "sport BJJ"Roger and Kron are sport BJJ players also
I suppose you can roll with strikes in mind, is more what I was implying.
Example Maia said a lot of times when he trained, he would do so as if there were striking involved. Someone like Paulo Miyao doesn’t
If you’re rolling around with no strikes, even if on your mind you are playing sport BJJ
And if you don’t want to call it that, you’re rolling around doing BJJ moves against BJJ people which is not self defense training
Roger, Kron were sport players who did techniques that work against other BJJ players, I would assume the majority of there training had zero strikes involved when rolling, or they cared if it was “self defense” ready
The majority of BJJ training, either at a “sport” school or “self defense” school is most likely against other BJJ people in your class and that’s who you roll against
I haven’t been to the Gracie Academy, but I’m sure they “roll” during training, also they like to “keep it playful” in rolling, that it sport BJJ or just rolling with your friends, I don’t think that would be considered self defense training
rolling with no strikes but imagining the strikes coming from somone who isn't intent on hitting you = larping
I have rolled with Roger while he was training for MMA at Blackhouse. He will control you with mma gloves on ...throw 10% punches ...but his game is always jiu jitsu control on the ground. I have never felt such pressure from a 190 lb guy .he was always thinking ...3 maneuvers ahead .
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mideastgrappler -liquidrob -Bend The Knee -liquidrob - Anyone who rolls around, no strikes, passes guard, does all BJJ moves to counter BJJ moves during rolling, which everyone does is doing "sport BJJ"Roger and Kron are sport BJJ players also
I suppose you can roll with strikes in mind, is more what I was implying.
Example Maia said a lot of times when he trained, he would do so as if there were striking involved. Someone like Paulo Miyao doesn’t
If you’re rolling around with no strikes, even if on your mind you are playing sport BJJ
And if you don’t want to call it that, you’re rolling around doing BJJ moves against BJJ people which is not self defense training
Roger, Kron were sport players who did techniques that work against other BJJ players, I would assume the majority of there training had zero strikes involved when rolling, or they cared if it was “self defense” ready
The majority of BJJ training, either at a “sport” school or “self defense” school is most likely against other BJJ people in your class and that’s who you roll against
I haven’t been to the Gracie Academy, but I’m sure they “roll” during training, also they like to “keep it playful” in rolling, that it sport BJJ or just rolling with your friends, I don’t think that would be considered self defense training
rolling with no strikes but imagining the strikes coming from somone who isn't intent on hitting you = larping
Exactly lol
gato de rua -I have rolled with Roger while he was training for MMA at Blackhouse. He will control you with mma gloves on ...throw 10% punches ...but his game is always jiu jitsu control on the ground. I have never felt such pressure from a 190 lb guy .he was always thinking ...3 maneuvers ahead .
Of course because he was actually training MMA, even Roger said ths majority of stuff he did was pretty useless for MMA
Roger, Kron, etc…they are/were sport BJJ players, they were not “self defense” BJJ guys
A lot of BJJ love to talk about there street ready self defense techniques but like everyone else they slap and bump and roll around doing BJJ moves against BJJ moves with no strikes at the end of class and that’s what the majority like to do, they can call it what they want and believe they are practicing for the streetz, but unless you are consistently training with strikes, different scenarios etc…you are just playing BJJ
Most of it is marketing
what part of keeping it playful you not understand?
liquidrob -gato de rua -I have rolled with Roger while he was training for MMA at Blackhouse. He will control you with mma gloves on ...throw 10% punches ...but his game is always jiu jitsu control on the ground. I have never felt such pressure from a 190 lb guy .he was always thinking ...3 maneuvers ahead .
Of course because he was actually training MMA, even Roger said ths majority of stuff he did was pretty useless for MMA
Roger, Kron, etc…they are/were sport BJJ players, they were not “self defense” BJJ guys
A lot of BJJ love to talk about there street ready self defense techniques but like everyone else they slap and bump and roll around doing BJJ moves against BJJ moves with no strikes at the end of class and that’s what the majority like to do, they can call it what they want and believe they are practicing for the streetz, but unless you are consistently training with strikes, different scenarios etc…you are just playing BJJ
Most of it is marketing
If you take a student who plays a ton of inverted/lapel shit and at the beginning of the round tell him you're training with slaps today, without actually touching him, Im gonna bet his game dramatically changes.
I feel like you're splitting hairs here.
Bend The Knee -liquidrob -gato de rua -I have rolled with Roger while he was training for MMA at Blackhouse. He will control you with mma gloves on ...throw 10% punches ...but his game is always jiu jitsu control on the ground. I have never felt such pressure from a 190 lb guy .he was always thinking ...3 maneuvers ahead .
Of course because he was actually training MMA, even Roger said ths majority of stuff he did was pretty useless for MMA
Roger, Kron, etc…they are/were sport BJJ players, they were not “self defense” BJJ guys
A lot of BJJ love to talk about there street ready self defense techniques but like everyone else they slap and bump and roll around doing BJJ moves against BJJ moves with no strikes at the end of class and that’s what the majority like to do, they can call it what they want and believe they are practicing for the streetz, but unless you are consistently training with strikes, different scenarios etc…you are just playing BJJ
Most of it is marketing
If you take a student who plays a ton of inverted/lapel shit and at the beginning of the round tell him you're training with slaps today, without actually touching him, Im gonna bet his game dramatically changes.
I feel like you're splitting hairs here.
Obviously you never seen Keenans Hoodie String game, there are levels to this
liquidrob -Bend The Knee -liquidrob -gato de rua -I have rolled with Roger while he was training for MMA at Blackhouse. He will control you with mma gloves on ...throw 10% punches ...but his game is always jiu jitsu control on the ground. I have never felt such pressure from a 190 lb guy .he was always thinking ...3 maneuvers ahead .
Of course because he was actually training MMA, even Roger said ths majority of stuff he did was pretty useless for MMA
Roger, Kron, etc…they are/were sport BJJ players, they were not “self defense” BJJ guys
A lot of BJJ love to talk about there street ready self defense techniques but like everyone else they slap and bump and roll around doing BJJ moves against BJJ moves with no strikes at the end of class and that’s what the majority like to do, they can call it what they want and believe they are practicing for the streetz, but unless you are consistently training with strikes, different scenarios etc…you are just playing BJJ
Most of it is marketing
If you take a student who plays a ton of inverted/lapel shit and at the beginning of the round tell him you're training with slaps today, without actually touching him, Im gonna bet his game dramatically changes.
I feel like you're splitting hairs here.
Obviously you never seen Keenans Hoodie String game, there are levels to this
Hahaha is there a dvd on bjj fanatics ?