I have rolled with Roger while he was training for MMA at Blackhouse. He will control you with mma gloves on ...throw 10% punches ...but his game is always jiu jitsu control on the ground. I have never felt such pressure from a 190 lb guy .he was always thinking ...3 maneuvers ahead .
Of course because he was actually training MMA, even Roger said ths majority of stuff he did was pretty useless for MMA
Roger, Kron, etc…they are/were sport BJJ players, they were not “self defense” BJJ guys
A lot of BJJ love to talk about there street ready self defense techniques but like everyone else they slap and bump and roll around doing BJJ moves against BJJ moves with no strikes at the end of class and that’s what the majority like to do, they can call it what they want and believe they are practicing for the streetz, but unless you are consistently training with strikes, different scenarios etc…you are just playing BJJ
Most of it is marketing
If you take a student who plays a ton of inverted/lapel shit and at the beginning of the round tell him you're training with slaps today, without actually touching him, Im gonna bet his game dramatically changes.
I feel like you're splitting hairs here.
Obviously you never seen Keenans Hoodie String game, there are levels to this
Hahaha is there a dvd on bjj fanatics ?
No, but he does have a video on it lol, think it’s on YouTube
During quarantine him and his boys did all “Street Jiu Jitsu” training, a lot, they roll in street clothes, show all the techniques and controls available, doing lapel guard type moves etc
being able to hold your own in a fight goes a long way, but it’s not everything.
Also, the idea paint by numbers technique partner kata is more effective at getting you ready for an altercation than doing rigorous controlled sparring is silly.
I know he's huge on MMA/Self Defense BJJ and I know he used to compete. But it seems like he went all in on the self defense. Does he still train sport at all? I could imagine doing self defense has to get boring.
We all train sport BJJ to be honest. Unless you’re training with strikes allowed (some schools do allow this) then you’re training sport.
Rolling against other people that are doing BJJ is doing sport BJJ.
Now I guarantee Rener isn’t doing the latest worm guard sweeps or whatever. But neither are a lot of people.
When he rolls at his academy he rolls how 90% of us (and probably more to be honest) roll. We roll with and without the gi, and we go for sweeps, passes, back takes, submissions, and we don’t strike each other.
I know he's huge on MMA/Self Defense BJJ and I know he used to compete. But it seems like he went all in on the self defense. Does he still train sport at all? I could imagine doing self defense has to get boring.
We all train sport BJJ to be honest. Unless you’re training with strikes allowed (some schools do allow this) then you’re training sport.
Rolling against other people that are doing BJJ is doing sport BJJ.
Now I guarantee Rener isn’t doing the latest worm guard sweeps or whatever. But neither are a lot of people.
When he rolls at his academy he rolls how 90% of us (and probably more to be honest) roll. We roll with and without the gi, and we go for sweeps, passes, back takes, submissions, and we don’t strike each other.
Yup, exactly my point, everyone can market it anyway they want, but if the majority of your training and rolling is no strikes, passing guard, using BJJ against other BJJ guys in class you’re doing sport BJJ
Rolling with “strikes in mind” without doing strikes is just to make someone feel better about there training lol
i prefer to call it recreational bjj....pure grappling training, which obviously makes up the vast bulk of ones training.
And just to nit-pick, one can engage in recrestional grappling while still practicing more fighting oriented grappling techniques, positioning and movements during much of their training.
i prefer to call it recreational bjj....pure grappling training, which obviously makes up the vast bulk of ones training.
And just to nit-pick, one can engage in recrestional grappling while still practicing more fighting oriented grappling techniques, positioning and movements during much of their training.
recreational BJJ? Have you retired the term "monkey fuckery?"
i prefer to call it recreational bjj....pure grappling training, which obviously makes up the vast bulk of ones training.
And just to nit-pick, one can engage in recrestional grappling while still practicing more fighting oriented grappling techniques, positioning and movements during much of their training.
This is what Maia explained that he did. He would train with "sport" guys but always kept striking in mind. I really like that
I know he's huge on MMA/Self Defense BJJ and I know he used to compete. But it seems like he went all in on the self defense. Does he still train sport at all? I could imagine doing self defense has to get boring.
We all train sport BJJ to be honest. Unless you’re training with strikes allowed (some schools do allow this) then you’re training sport.
Rolling against other people that are doing BJJ is doing sport BJJ.
Now I guarantee Rener isn’t doing the latest worm guard sweeps or whatever. But neither are a lot of people.
When he rolls at his academy he rolls how 90% of us (and probably more to be honest) roll. We roll with and without the gi, and we go for sweeps, passes, back takes, submissions, and we don’t strike each other.
I somewhat disagree with this. Even when they are rolling without strikes they still maintain a different philosophy and it shows in small ways in their grappling.
For example in sport, points are the priority and when playing guard, elbow to knee contact is important. It is taught to the student not to let the opponent pass.
If you watch Ryron roll and hear his philosophy, the primary emphasis is more on safe distance from strikes and he rolls like that even when he is just rolling. This means he might get his guard passed but he teaches that getting your guard passed safely is more important than trying to prevent the guard pass in a way that the opponent would be able to hit you as he is passing.
His game is always very energy efficient too. That also creates some differences in his regular roll than a sport roll where the objective is to score the most points in a certain time limit.
When he is rolling without strikes it may look a lot like sport bjj but it is not exactly the same.
Here is a video of the brothers rolling. You can see how an emphasis on energy and strikes is present. Of course he knows there will be no strikes so at times like when Renee postures in his guard early on in the roll Ryron doesn't go full on into vale tudo strike prevention mode but even then he still somewhat simulates a double wrist control closed guard.
Here is a video of the brothers rolling. You can see how an emphasis on energy and strikes is present. Of course he knows there will be no strikes so at times like when Renee postures in his guard early on in the roll Ryron doesn't go full on into vale tudo strike prevention mode but even then he still somewhat simulates a double wrist control closed guard.
3:20 is that legal to put your hand on the throat like that?
The idea of self defence is rediculous, all your doing is building you confidence, theoretically you could be more effective throwing panicked hay makers in a self defence situation then using you blue belt level take down and mount.
Get fit, get good cardio and train martial arts to build your confidence and self awareness and then if you are an adult you should easily avoid fighting on the street for the rest if you life.
Here is a video of the brothers rolling. You can see how an emphasis on energy and strikes is present. Of course he knows there will be no strikes so at times like when Renee postures in his guard early on in the roll Ryron doesn't go full on into vale tudo strike prevention mode but even then he still somewhat simulates a double wrist control closed guard.
3:20 is that legal to put your hand on the throat like that?
legal....who cares. It is a legit grip. 1 or 2 handed. How does this differ from amassa pao? Would you ask if amaa pao is legal? I have a series of things for VT that involves the throat/neck and is an extention of what i learned about using amassa pao...so when i learned VT, it was already familiar and trained.
I know he's huge on MMA/Self Defense BJJ and I know he used to compete. But it seems like he went all in on the self defense. Does he still train sport at all? I could imagine doing self defense has to get boring.
We all train sport BJJ to be honest. Unless you’re training with strikes allowed (some schools do allow this) then you’re training sport.
Rolling against other people that are doing BJJ is doing sport BJJ.
Now I guarantee Rener isn’t doing the latest worm guard sweeps or whatever. But neither are a lot of people.
When he rolls at his academy he rolls how 90% of us (and probably more to be honest) roll. We roll with and without the gi, and we go for sweeps, passes, back takes, submissions, and we don’t strike each other.
I somewhat disagree with this. Even when they are rolling without strikes they still maintain a different philosophy and it shows in small ways in their grappling.
For example in sport, points are the priority and when playing guard, elbow to knee contact is important. It is taught to the student not to let the opponent pass.
If you watch Ryron roll and hear his philosophy, the primary emphasis is more on safe distance from strikes and he rolls like that even when he is just rolling. This means he might get his guard passed but he teaches that getting your guard passed safely is more important than trying to prevent the guard pass in a way that the opponent would be able to hit you as he is passing.
His game is always very energy efficient too. That also creates some differences in his regular roll than a sport roll where the objective is to score the most points in a certain time limit.
When he is rolling without strikes it may look a lot like sport bjj but it is not exactly the same.
I agree with this....movements, positions and priorities change when you set different objectives in training. I do it by emphasizijg certain things and doing certain things...after I get that, I may switch modes and "play".
Here is a video of the brothers rolling. You can see how an emphasis on energy and strikes is present. Of course he knows there will be no strikes so at times like when Renee postures in his guard early on in the roll Ryron doesn't go full on into vale tudo strike prevention mode but even then he still somewhat simulates a double wrist control closed guard.
3:20 is that legal to put your hand on the throat like that?
legal....who cares. It is a legit grip. 1 or 2 handed. How does this differ from amassa pao? Would you ask if amaa pao is legal? I have a series of things for VT that involves the throat/neck and is an extention of what i learned about using amassa pao...so when i learned VT, it was already familiar and trained.
It's funny you mention this. I started using this as a guard break after watching Sperry's Vale Tudo videos and then started using the Amassa Pao version in the gi just for continuity. I stopped using it when I stopped doing MMA and switched to BJJ because I thought it was illegal. I'd still like it to be my primary pass, though.
I remember in another thread you talked about principles you can train while rolling in BJJ that are from Vale Tudo and you mentioned controlling the centre. Can you tell me more about that? I frequently read your posts and want to pick your brain because I like the way you think.
