waaah, my boy got tooled -- this sport sucks; or at the very least, we need to change the rules or change the scoring system or (LOL) replace the cage with a ring.
Let's go back to a ring and stick with forbidding knees and kicks to a downed opponent, that way Sakuraba might still be the best. Remember how he used to "game the system" by turtling because his opponents couldn't do anything to him in that position? Wonder why EvilYoshida doesn't have a problem with that. But god forbid a western wrestler puts a hand down momentarily to avoid getting kneed in the face.
You people are retarded. Find a new sport to watch. You will never get a ring, wrestlers will continue to win, and your old heroes will continue to be left behind.
Starts slow clap....
VTFU!
Didn't you just describe Nick Diaz' first round submission of Mach as an example of lay and pray???
LOL
ajsr - Didn't you just describe Nick Diaz' first round submission of Mach as an example of lay and pray???
LOL
Poor reading comprehension. EY continually whines that western weightcutters are ruining their sport by getting takedowns and not doing anything. I pointed out that Diaz, whom EY lauds as one of the few Americans with budo, went for a takedown at the opening bell, got it, and then did absolutely nothing until Sakurai escaped back to his feet.
I never get tired of watching Orcus destroy fools.
NEVER!
"Big difference. Diaz actually looks to finish the fight on the ground and did so in that fight. He may have not done anything at first but he eventually did. Whereas guys like Fitch, Koscheck and GSP go in with the mind state of laying on a guy until the decision, not to set up a fight ending moment."
I don't want to get too sidetracked here. Diaz went for a takedown immediately and did nothing. What he eventually did -- when he was put on his back by Sakurai and NOT in a position of control -- has nothing to do with what I said. I saw more position improvements and sub attempts from GSP against Hardy in any given minute of the fight than I saw from Diaz when he was in the position he wanted against Sakurai. My point is not that Nick is a lay and prayer, it's that neither of them are, and EY and the rest of you single out the guys you don't like to bitch about.
You don't have a problem with the rules or the cage, you have a problem with some fighters and some performances. I don't remember anyone saying, back when Arona was sleeping on guys for 20 minutes for the win, that Pride needed to switch to a cage or that they needed to deduct 20% instead of 10% for a yellow card or that they needed to add a fire pit in the middle of the ring.
When Crocop and Barnett spent 70% of the fight clinching against the ropes in their second fight, I don't remember anyone demanding a change in rules or that they switch to a Yamma pit.
The reason there is less clinching in events with a ring is that most of the time, either neither guy has any wrestling, or only one of them does -- so either there are no takedowns, or the wrestler gets them easily. In the big cage events, fighters tend to actually be -- get this -- well-rounded, so takedowns aren't easy. It's not that there are guys who just love to hump against the cage, it's that they are groundfighters whose opponents are ACTUALLY ABLE TO PREVENT THE TAKEDOWN.
Clay Guida does not want to hold his opponents against the cage. He wants to take them down. They do not want to go to the ground. So, bizarrely, you blame Guida for trying to take the fight where he wants it. Not his opponents, who can't keep Guida from closing the distance; not his opponents, who are "BJJ guys" like Danzig and Diaz who presumably WANT the fight on the ground yet fight with everything they have to keep the fight from going there.
Guida fights for a takedown against Diaz while Diaz holds onto a limp kimura that will never come. Change the rules! Get rid of the cage! I'm never watching MMA again!
Royce and Sak spend 90 fucking minutes pressed against the ropes with Royce trying to take Sak down while Sak holds onto a limp kimura that will never come. MY GOD THIS 20 PAGE THREAD ON THE GREATEST MATCH OF ALL TIME IN THE GREATEST ORGANIZATION OF ALL TIME WITH THE GREATEST RULES AND FIGHTING ENVIRONMENT OF ALL TIME.
Orcus you should stick to translating, your opinions are completely and totally worthless.
orcus -ajsr - Didn't you just describe Nick Diaz' first round submission of Mach as an example of lay and pray???
LOL
Poor reading comprehension. EY continually whines that western weightcutters are ruining their sport by getting takedowns and not doing anything. I pointed out that Diaz, whom EY lauds as one of the few Americans with budo, went for a takedown at the opening bell, got it, and then did absolutely nothing until Sakurai escaped back to his feet.
how did you feel seeing him laying and praying Sakurai?
Oh I'm sorry, I misinterpreted this perfectly clear comment as an assertion that Diaz had lay and prayed Mach. Semantic backpeddling aside, that post made you look like a clown.
Nick hits the single leg, and immediately lands 3 big shots to the head, then postures and rips away to the body and head for 10-15 seconds. This is followed by 5 seconds of inactivity during which Mach gets his feet on Nick's hips and pushes him away.
Nick then dives back on top, immediately passes Mach's left butterfly, and spends the next 30 seconds or so trying to establish position whilst Mach peppers him with shots to the back of the head. Mach gets the left butterfly back in, Nick stacks and rips big right hands to the body, then lands four big lefts to the head before Mach gets back to his feet.
At most there was 30 seconds of inactivity while Nick tried to establish position after passing. How the fuck could you possibly describe that phase of the fight as laying and praying?? You haven't got a fucking clue man, just give it up. All the internet beatings Whistleblower has given you over the years have left you punchy and past your prime.
Winning /= exciting.
Wrestlers win but it's boring to watch. That's why they come up with terms like lay n pray and wall n stall. Not exactly setting the world on fire.
I have nothing againt ground fighting though, I like watching a good grappling contest with both fighters going for subs and reversals and so on. But watching a guy lay on somebody for a minute pitty-patting the belly til the ref stands up is not very entertaining.
Same type of argument is made about PBF. Thinking the guy is an a-hole has nothing to do with recognizing his greatness as a boxer. He can be a great boxer (P4P?) and still be disliked for his personality.
orcus - waaah, my boy got tooled -- this sport sucks; or at the very least, we need to change the rules or change the scoring system or (LOL) replace the cage with a ring.
Let's go back to a ring and stick with forbidding knees and kicks to a downed opponent, that way Sakuraba might still be the best. Remember how he used to "game the system" by turtling because his opponents couldn't do anything to him in that position? Wonder why EvilYoshida doesn't have a problem with that. But god forbid a western wrestler puts a hand down momentarily to avoid getting kneed in the face.
You people are retarded. Find a new sport to watch. You will never get a ring, wrestlers will continue to win, and your old heroes will continue to be left behind.
you mad brah?
This is a growing dissatisfaction that has been developing for a while now. It isn't just some impulsive reaction on the part of indignant Rampage fans.
TonyBarbernhb -orcus - waaah, my boy got tooled -- this sport sucks; or at the very least, we need to change the rules or change the scoring system or (LOL) replace the cage with a ring.
Let's go back to a ring and stick with forbidding knees and kicks to a downed opponent, that way Sakuraba might still be the best. Remember how he used to "game the system" by turtling because his opponents couldn't do anything to him in that position? Wonder why EvilYoshida doesn't have a problem with that. But god forbid a western wrestler puts a hand down momentarily to avoid getting kneed in the face.
You people are retarded. Find a new sport to watch. You will never get a ring, wrestlers will continue to win, and your old heroes will continue to be left behind.
you mad brah?
Not as mad as he was when people were talking shit on Anderson for bitching out in Abu Dhabi, you would think he was screwing Silva the way he was trying to defend him.
I fucking hate Bisping and Rashad, and seeing them wins sucks. But, sometimes we need events like UFC 114 to make the events when they get Machida'd or Hendo'd that much better.
orcus - waaah, my boy got tooled -- this sport sucks; or at the very least, we need to change the rules or change the scoring system or (LOL) replace the cage with a ring.
Let's go back to a ring and stick with forbidding knees and kicks to a downed opponent, that way Sakuraba might still be the best. Remember how he used to "game the system" by turtling because his opponents couldn't do anything to him in that position? Wonder why EvilYoshida doesn't have a problem with that. But god forbid a western wrestler puts a hand down momentarily to avoid getting kneed in the face.
You people are retarded. Find a new sport to watch. You will never get a ring, wrestlers will continue to win, and your old heroes will continue to be left behind.
If I could vote up 100 times on this post alone, I would.
I couldn't have put it better myself.. Great post.
nobones -orcus - waaah, my boy got tooled -- this sport sucks; or at the very least, we need to change the rules or change the scoring system or (LOL) replace the cage with a ring.
Let's go back to a ring and stick with forbidding knees and kicks to a downed opponent, that way Sakuraba might still be the best. Remember how he used to "game the system" by turtling because his opponents couldn't do anything to him in that position? Wonder why EvilYoshida doesn't have a problem with that. But god forbid a western wrestler puts a hand down momentarily to avoid getting kneed in the face.
You people are retarded. Find a new sport to watch. You will never get a ring, wrestlers will continue to win, and your old heroes will continue to be left behind.
People call Randy vs. Sylvia one of the most exciting fights of all time,
lol, talk about losing all credibility...
"Oh I'm sorry, I misinterpreted this perfectly clear comment as an assertion that Diaz had lay and prayed Mach. Semantic backpeddling aside, that post made you look like a clown. "
I'm sorry you entirely misunderstood the point of my post no matter how many times I explain it to you. Continue telling yourself that Diaz was way more active from the top than GSP was.
ahahaha, shit's hilarious. I think orcus is a troll tbh. I've seen him do the exact same thing a few times now. The old "you just don't understand what i'm saying" troll job.
orcus - "Oh I'm sorry, I misinterpreted this perfectly clear comment as an assertion that Diaz had lay and prayed Mach. Semantic backpeddling aside, that post made you look like a clown. "
I'm sorry you entirely misunderstood the point of my post no matter how many times I explain it to you. Continue telling yourself that Diaz was way more active from the top than GSP was.
I understood the point you were trying to make perfectly, it's just a fucking laughable example. If you think that, and I quote, "Nick went for a takedown as soon as the fight started and was doing absolutely nothing on the ground until Sakurai escaped back to his feet", then you were either watching a completely different fight than everyone else was, or you are just totally clueless.
Toasted - This is a growing dissatisfaction that has been developing for a while now. It isn't just some impulsive reaction on the part of indignant Rampage fans.
Yes -- it is growing because all the heroes like Sak and Gomi and Aoki and Wand are being made to look entirely average or even worse by the new breed of fighter who actually has a plan and the skills and traits needed to implement it. People are deluding themselves that it is the rules or the judging or the fighting area that is the reason for this, and not just the simple fact that the guys they thought were awesome simply are NOT in comparison to the best guys today. That the reason many of them looked awesome was because they were very skilled, or very well-rounded, in an era when their opponents mostly were not.
Royce used to look awesome too, given opponents that were inept in comparison to himself. The cage, the rules, the scoring, etc, were no factor whatsoever in the smashing he received from Matt Hughes.
You could drop Frank Edgar in the original Bushido tournament and he would have won the whole thing. You could drop Rashad in the MWGP and he would have had a great fucking shot at winning the whole thing. Despite your non-stop crying, these guys win because they fight smart and have the skills to do it. They would do it in the ring, they would do it with knees on the ground.
Get over it.
VectorWega - UFC needs to remove takedowns, kicks, and knees and make it more like boxing because then Rampage could beat Rashad.
Holding in the clinch is ok though.
I don't think even that would have saved Rampage.